Good. People shouldn’t be ordering body altering chemicals randomly off the Internet.
This isn’t a big story, in fact its basic legal discourse and didn’t even come with a drug bust or actual crackdown.
If this story was about a website selling benzos and the comments were full of stay at home white women complaining about the suffering they would now endure having to be sober, people would be laughing at them, and worried about their need for this. Not completely identical but this kind of rage bait only works because of the group it points to.
Except that the UK is also obstructing proper avenues to get them too.
Transgender patients facing a years-long wait for NHS gender care are being handed a “death sentence”, says the mum of a trans woman who took her own life.
Data obtained by Newsnight and analysed by the BBC found it would take 10 years to clear the backlog of people waiting for first appointments in gender care.
Mind you that gender affirming treatment can be the difference between life and death for trans people. So, they can’t rely on public services, and they can’t take matters into their own hands. So, the idea here is “be rich or don’t be trans”?
Oh fuck off. That’s not a death sentence. That’s hyperbole if ever there was. It’s a disappointment. Life is full of them.
Suicide is prevalent outside of the LGBTQ community as well. I understand that it comes with a higher rate likely from bullying but I’m sure there are other groups that also have high suicide rates if we broke them down the same way.
The answer is be rich or don’t be anything. Lack of cancer treatment, lack of dental treatment, lack of preventative care. All of those are legitimate issues as well.
Yes, if you aren’t rich you will likely suffer from the things you want but can’t do.
Spoken as someone who haven’t ever bothered to talk to trans people or read about them a single day of your life. Consistently studies and accounts from transgender people indicate that gender transition diminishes the rates of suicide and suicidal ideation.
But it shows how little you know that the best you have to say is “sometimes life sucks for other people too”. Guess what, this isn’t about you. No idea why you are even so invested in the risks and needs related to something that has nothing to do with you. Because clearly it isn’t out of care for other people.
Yeah and so does eating healthier, getting more money, better health, access to transportation, etc… the list of things that help stop suicide is whatever people are wanting to feel better about their life and I get that there is a community that wants these things.
I just can’t believe it’s at a point of praising illegal sales of drugs.
And don’t pretend you know me. You don’t. Cause you are wrong about a lot of what you think about me and it’s easier to assume the person I am than accept that you are just making shit up to feel better about your side.
I’m against the narcissistic vibe of it’s good as long as you get what you specifically want. I want rules and a helpful society not people arguing that them doing things by their own vested interest are what’s best. I care because I have to live with the rest of you as much as you have to live with me and everyone else. I’m sorry you feel that’s unfair and that currently it is unfair in how treatment is accessible but life is very very unfair.
You are right, I don’t know you. But if you are so good-hearted deep inside, why would you call trans people narcissistic for trying to address the unfairness of life by their own means?
Yet for all you say of me not knowing you, you don’t seem to be trying to understand anyone else either. All you have to show are the shallowest platitudes you can think of.
You are right, life is unfair. Which is exactly why you can’t count on governments providing what you need, why people might need to figure it out on their own. In light of that, is it really so shocking that people may resort to illegal means? Yet even that is being taken away.
You don’t seem to have a drop of sympathy for that, you don’t know or care about what severe gender dysphoria may be like, you talk of it as if it was merely denying them a luxury. No, this is not the sort of thing that may be alleviated treated by “eating healthier” or “access to transportation”.
Frankly, all this pearl-clutching about illegality and regulation sounds like something from someone who believes society is far more ideal than it really is. Or is your point just “get fucked when you are told to”? Because that’s the only way I can see conciliating the inherent unfairness of life with strict adherence to the rules.
Except transfem hormones are not a controlled substance, not addictive, purchased for therapeutic purposes and not for abuse, needed by a lot of people because of outdated/inefficient/underfunded healthcare systems.
So yeah, it’s completely like selling benzos except for all of the reasons it is not.
Not a controlled substance doesnt mean I should be allowed to purchase it without at least having a doctor opinion first.
It has such a severe effect on your body that it should really be prescribed by a competent medical professionnal. If you think otherwise, you’re delusionnal.
Yeah they don’t want to hear anything like that. Just people thinking that this will be the final thing that makes them happy, so accessing it through any means is valid. And the people that thinks it looks good to support it because it’s their friends.
A member of their community literally telling them it’s not good won’t even get through anymore.
Honestly, yeah. Seems like I’m arguing against brick walls and it’s not like you actually have any power to do or change anything anyways so horribly pointless
No it’s a body altering drug that directly impacts sensitive hormones balances that our bodies use for regulation and development.
It’s still a life altering drug even if it’s not addictive. Your argument doesn’t make sense cause it’s got a huge impact if it can be bought by anyone with access to digital currency. And is it a lot of people? The trans community is supposedly only a fraction of a percent to a percent of the overall populace. People are suffering from the underfunded healthcare in much more dire ways than cosmetic medications.
Are we ok with people selling chemo medication and opioids through the Internet? People have pain and are dying of cancer and need the drugs too.
You are upset because of the community it impacts not the actual problems it represents.
Always lovely when people pull the “it’s a tiny percent of people so whatever happens to them doesn’t matter”. So are disabled people. So are people with rare illnesses.
But who do you think is even going after gender-affirming hormones in the first place? It’s an unbearable risk for everyone else but whatever happens to trans people without it doesn’t matter. Funny how that is…
It’s not that it doesn’t matter. I didn’t say that and you are projecting. It’s that, it doesn’t require allowing a free for all to access hormone manipulating drugs to handle and in a better world we should absolutely be going through legitimate channels instead of praising drug lords for supplying illegally on the internet.
But it’s something you want so it’s ok.
The trans community is not the greatest or the only victim in this world. It’s unfair but praising illegal drug sales is not correct.
Edit: Disregard my first here statement. Got you confused with someone else. Yes the healthcare system is fucked but it’s fucked for everyone and again this is not literally life saving like the way that blood thinners or anti-psychotics even would be.
You jumped to attack because you are ready to do that for people you view as entirely wrong even if I absolutely agree on other topics.
But also don’t compare trans people having trouble accessing hormonal supplements to marginalized groups being flooded with addictive drugs. Christ that is a comparison that certainly doesn’t fit.
…what part of the comparison you have issue with? That trans people are a marginalized group, or that what they are seeking is not nearly as harmful, yet authorities making an issue out of it regardless.
There is not a lot of trans people so it’s okay to fuck them over.
Literally what is your point there?
“Uhh it’s only millions of people we are denying healthcare to and then criminalising when they want to get support themselves and not billions, rookie numbers.”
Cosmetic medication
So at the same time it’s very serious and dangerous but also just a stupid silly cosmetic thing?
The answer is that no, it’s not just a cosmetic thing, there is a mountain od evidence for proven therapeutic effects of hrt, these drugs save people’s lives.
If we let people sell fireworks online what’s stopping someone from selling a nuke??? Explain this leftists???
Clearly chemo needs a higher amount of expertise to prescribe and the treatment needs to be watched much more carefully, and estrogen clearly has less abuse potential than opioids.
You are upset because of the community it impacts not the actual problems it represents.
Ah yes, we all know trash girlfriend at lemmy dot world who loves the current fucked up UK healthcare system except for when it comes to trans people.
I am mad because that system is disproportionately hard on the community, I am mad because people like you love to dismiss our problems and suffering as frivolous without ever trying to first engage with our experiences.
For my whole life I’ve been living in less than great places in regards to trans healthcare, without being able to solve this problem myself, I would not be here.
Not all drugs but yeah that’s why you can’t just buyosy of them on the Internet.
I didn’t say the things you are thinking I said.
You have your problems of what you desire in life and so do the rest of us. Yeah it’s annoying that we live in the modern age where money and resources could buy you the body you want but you can’t get it but that’s true for people with worse disability than you and it’s a lot less fixable.
Everyone is suffering and you living your suffering has got the idea that yours is the most important which it is cause you are living it. Doesn’t mean that everything you do and support to achieve that is good. Sorry. It doesn’t.
We either live in a society where we try to help everyone and limit abuse potential for everyone or we let it be a free for all and we are clearly somewhere in the middle swinging back and forth, which means we are all fucked.
I understand your experiences and have lived them closer than you think as the Bi kid in a farming town that was bullied into multiple suicide attempts. But you don’t care. You want to be angry and you want to be right. As is tradition for humans.
I just don’t care to pretend otherwise. Things that make humans feel good about themselves are life savers regardless of what it is because it’s the only thing we crave. To feel good. Unfortunately that just isn’t life.
Can you buy Cochlear implants off the Internet to install yourself?
How about a corneal transplant?
Can I get myself new kidneys or my sister a new heart? Trust me they would be very useful for making a better life for us.
A hearing aid is absolutely not in the same realm even if it’s part of the new technological advancements that we can use money to buy to alter our physical nature. But you know that this is a different thing. You are doing a bait and switch whataboutism to diminish the actual conversation of chemical drugs that alter body chemistry being sold without a permit and prescription to anyone with access to the internet.
It absolutely is in the same realm. Now if you wanted to compare surgery to surgery sure, but self administered medical devices can be compared to self administered medications. Now, prescription to prescription let’s talk contact lenses.
But ultimately I wouldn’t be so angry if they weren’t restricting every legitimate means as well. This is like if the government were to make me jump through years of hoops to get hearing aids and then block me from buying some off a grey market medical device website. Rather than making mainstream options more available they’re pushing people further towards sketchier options.
And here you are talking about homemade surgery when the topic of the day are pills and disability aids. All you have said in this thread is bait and switch.
Good. People shouldn’t be ordering body altering chemicals randomly off the Internet.
This isn’t a big story, in fact its basic legal discourse and didn’t even come with a drug bust or actual crackdown.
If this story was about a website selling benzos and the comments were full of stay at home white women complaining about the suffering they would now endure having to be sober, people would be laughing at them, and worried about their need for this. Not completely identical but this kind of rage bait only works because of the group it points to.
Except that the UK is also obstructing proper avenues to get them too.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68602939
Mind you that gender affirming treatment can be the difference between life and death for trans people. So, they can’t rely on public services, and they can’t take matters into their own hands. So, the idea here is “be rich or don’t be trans”?
Oh fuck off. That’s not a death sentence. That’s hyperbole if ever there was. It’s a disappointment. Life is full of them.
Suicide is prevalent outside of the LGBTQ community as well. I understand that it comes with a higher rate likely from bullying but I’m sure there are other groups that also have high suicide rates if we broke them down the same way.
The answer is be rich or don’t be anything. Lack of cancer treatment, lack of dental treatment, lack of preventative care. All of those are legitimate issues as well.
Yes, if you aren’t rich you will likely suffer from the things you want but can’t do.
Spoken as someone who haven’t ever bothered to talk to trans people or read about them a single day of your life. Consistently studies and accounts from transgender people indicate that gender transition diminishes the rates of suicide and suicidal ideation.
But it shows how little you know that the best you have to say is “sometimes life sucks for other people too”. Guess what, this isn’t about you. No idea why you are even so invested in the risks and needs related to something that has nothing to do with you. Because clearly it isn’t out of care for other people.
Yeah and so does eating healthier, getting more money, better health, access to transportation, etc… the list of things that help stop suicide is whatever people are wanting to feel better about their life and I get that there is a community that wants these things.
I just can’t believe it’s at a point of praising illegal sales of drugs.
And don’t pretend you know me. You don’t. Cause you are wrong about a lot of what you think about me and it’s easier to assume the person I am than accept that you are just making shit up to feel better about your side.
I’m against the narcissistic vibe of it’s good as long as you get what you specifically want. I want rules and a helpful society not people arguing that them doing things by their own vested interest are what’s best. I care because I have to live with the rest of you as much as you have to live with me and everyone else. I’m sorry you feel that’s unfair and that currently it is unfair in how treatment is accessible but life is very very unfair.
Yikes. I’m gonna order some weed and estrogen over the internet, inject them both while thinking of how caustic your brain is.
Wow I get to live in your brain instead of just you moving on with your life? I hope the rent is cheap I can’t afford more.
You are right, I don’t know you. But if you are so good-hearted deep inside, why would you call trans people narcissistic for trying to address the unfairness of life by their own means?
Yet for all you say of me not knowing you, you don’t seem to be trying to understand anyone else either. All you have to show are the shallowest platitudes you can think of.
You are right, life is unfair. Which is exactly why you can’t count on governments providing what you need, why people might need to figure it out on their own. In light of that, is it really so shocking that people may resort to illegal means? Yet even that is being taken away.
You don’t seem to have a drop of sympathy for that, you don’t know or care about what severe gender dysphoria may be like, you talk of it as if it was merely denying them a luxury. No, this is not the sort of thing that may be alleviated treated by “eating healthier” or “access to transportation”.
Frankly, all this pearl-clutching about illegality and regulation sounds like something from someone who believes society is far more ideal than it really is. Or is your point just “get fucked when you are told to”? Because that’s the only way I can see conciliating the inherent unfairness of life with strict adherence to the rules.
Except transfem hormones are not a controlled substance, not addictive, purchased for therapeutic purposes and not for abuse, needed by a lot of people because of outdated/inefficient/underfunded healthcare systems.
So yeah, it’s completely like selling benzos except for all of the reasons it is not.
Not a controlled substance doesnt mean I should be allowed to purchase it without at least having a doctor opinion first. It has such a severe effect on your body that it should really be prescribed by a competent medical professionnal. If you think otherwise, you’re delusionnal.
Yeah they don’t want to hear anything like that. Just people thinking that this will be the final thing that makes them happy, so accessing it through any means is valid. And the people that thinks it looks good to support it because it’s their friends.
A member of their community literally telling them it’s not good won’t even get through anymore.
This mans actually fighting windmills in this thread I swear to god.
Honestly, yeah. Seems like I’m arguing against brick walls and it’s not like you actually have any power to do or change anything anyways so horribly pointless
At this rate he might be applying to become a Terf Island Government Regulator probably
No it’s a body altering drug that directly impacts sensitive hormones balances that our bodies use for regulation and development.
It’s still a life altering drug even if it’s not addictive. Your argument doesn’t make sense cause it’s got a huge impact if it can be bought by anyone with access to digital currency. And is it a lot of people? The trans community is supposedly only a fraction of a percent to a percent of the overall populace. People are suffering from the underfunded healthcare in much more dire ways than cosmetic medications.
Are we ok with people selling chemo medication and opioids through the Internet? People have pain and are dying of cancer and need the drugs too.
You are upset because of the community it impacts not the actual problems it represents.
This might be the stupidest comment I’ve seen on Lemmy yet. I think I need to document this somehow
No it’s not. We all know we have seen dumber stuff on the Internet unless you joined yesterday. But whatever.
Always lovely when people pull the “it’s a tiny percent of people so whatever happens to them doesn’t matter”. So are disabled people. So are people with rare illnesses.
But who do you think is even going after gender-affirming hormones in the first place? It’s an unbearable risk for everyone else but whatever happens to trans people without it doesn’t matter. Funny how that is…
It’s not that it doesn’t matter. I didn’t say that and you are projecting. It’s that, it doesn’t require allowing a free for all to access hormone manipulating drugs to handle and in a better world we should absolutely be going through legitimate channels instead of praising drug lords for supplying illegally on the internet.
But it’s something you want so it’s ok.
The trans community is not the greatest or the only victim in this world. It’s unfair but praising illegal drug sales is not correct.
Who is being hurt by hrt being freely available?
You are imagining a spherical confused cis person in vacuum that’s getting hurt
The very first thing I showed you is that the legitimate channels are unusable.
But hey, it wouldn’t be the first time “illegal drug sales” are used as a pretext to attack undesirable populations.
Edit: Disregard my first here statement. Got you confused with someone else. Yes the healthcare system is fucked but it’s fucked for everyone and again this is not literally life saving like the way that blood thinners or anti-psychotics even would be.
You jumped to attack because you are ready to do that for people you view as entirely wrong even if I absolutely agree on other topics.
But also don’t compare trans people having trouble accessing hormonal supplements to marginalized groups being flooded with addictive drugs. Christ that is a comparison that certainly doesn’t fit.
…what part of the comparison you have issue with? That trans people are a marginalized group, or that what they are seeking is not nearly as harmful, yet authorities making an issue out of it regardless.
No.
Fucking all drugs are, that’s what drugs do???
Literally what is your point there?
“Uhh it’s only millions of people we are denying healthcare to and then criminalising when they want to get support themselves and not billions, rookie numbers.”
So at the same time it’s very serious and dangerous but also just a stupid silly cosmetic thing?
The answer is that no, it’s not just a cosmetic thing, there is a mountain od evidence for proven therapeutic effects of hrt, these drugs save people’s lives.
Clearly chemo needs a higher amount of expertise to prescribe and the treatment needs to be watched much more carefully, and estrogen clearly has less abuse potential than opioids.
Ah yes, we all know trash girlfriend at lemmy dot world who loves the current fucked up UK healthcare system except for when it comes to trans people.
I am mad because that system is disproportionately hard on the community, I am mad because people like you love to dismiss our problems and suffering as frivolous without ever trying to first engage with our experiences.
For my whole life I’ve been living in less than great places in regards to trans healthcare, without being able to solve this problem myself, I would not be here.
Not all drugs but yeah that’s why you can’t just buyosy of them on the Internet.
I didn’t say the things you are thinking I said.
You have your problems of what you desire in life and so do the rest of us. Yeah it’s annoying that we live in the modern age where money and resources could buy you the body you want but you can’t get it but that’s true for people with worse disability than you and it’s a lot less fixable.
Everyone is suffering and you living your suffering has got the idea that yours is the most important which it is cause you are living it. Doesn’t mean that everything you do and support to achieve that is good. Sorry. It doesn’t.
We either live in a society where we try to help everyone and limit abuse potential for everyone or we let it be a free for all and we are clearly somewhere in the middle swinging back and forth, which means we are all fucked.
I understand your experiences and have lived them closer than you think as the Bi kid in a farming town that was bullied into multiple suicide attempts. But you don’t care. You want to be angry and you want to be right. As is tradition for humans.
I just don’t care to pretend otherwise. Things that make humans feel good about themselves are life savers regardless of what it is because it’s the only thing we crave. To feel good. Unfortunately that just isn’t life.
Don’t speak for the disabled here unless you’re one of us. I can buy hearing aids off Google as I well should be able to.
Can you buy Cochlear implants off the Internet to install yourself?
How about a corneal transplant?
Can I get myself new kidneys or my sister a new heart? Trust me they would be very useful for making a better life for us.
A hearing aid is absolutely not in the same realm even if it’s part of the new technological advancements that we can use money to buy to alter our physical nature. But you know that this is a different thing. You are doing a bait and switch whataboutism to diminish the actual conversation of chemical drugs that alter body chemistry being sold without a permit and prescription to anyone with access to the internet.
It absolutely is in the same realm. Now if you wanted to compare surgery to surgery sure, but self administered medical devices can be compared to self administered medications. Now, prescription to prescription let’s talk contact lenses.
But ultimately I wouldn’t be so angry if they weren’t restricting every legitimate means as well. This is like if the government were to make me jump through years of hoops to get hearing aids and then block me from buying some off a grey market medical device website. Rather than making mainstream options more available they’re pushing people further towards sketchier options.
No.
And here you are talking about homemade surgery when the topic of the day are pills and disability aids. All you have said in this thread is bait and switch.