Windows 10 EoL is fast approaching, so I thought I’d give Linux a try on some equipment that won’t be able to upgrade to Windows 11. I wanted to see if I will be able to recommend an option to anyone that asks me what they should do with their old PC.
Many years ago I switched to Gentoo Linux to get through collage. I was very anti-MS at the time. I also currently interact with Linux systems regularly although they don’t have a DE and aren’t for general workstation use.
Ubuntu: easy install. Working desktop. Had issues with getting GPU drivers. App Store had apps that would install but not work. The App Store itself kept failing to update itself with an error that it was still running. It couldn’t clear this hurdle after a reboot so I finally killed the process and manually updated from terminal. Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
Mint: easy install. Switching to nvidia drivers worked without issue. App Store had issues with installing some apps due to missing dependencies that it couldn’t install. Some popular apps would install but wouldn’t run. Shutting the laptop closed results in a prompt to shutdown, but never really shuts off. Update process asks me to pick a fast source (why can’t it do this itself?)
Both: installing apps outside of their respective stores is an adventure in terminal instead of a GUI double-click. Secure boot issues. Constant prompt for password instead of a simple PIN or other form of identity verification.
Search results for basic operations require understanding that what works for Ubuntu might not work for Mint.
While I personally could work with either, I don’t see Linux taking any market share from MS or Apple when windows 10 is retired.
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Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
How do you know you are not an abnormal user?
Because I’ve been working with the Normal Users for 20 years.
I think you’re massively overestimating what normal users are willing to do. Normal users aren’t going to install Linux because normal users don’t install operating systems. Other things normal users don’t do:
- Install drivers
- Configure hardware (including printers)
- Run system recovery
- Run OS upgrades (unless forced on them)
When the upgrade from windows 7 to 10 resulted in broken systems/applications, some normal users paid someone to fix it, but most bought a new computer.
In short, Linux is ready to replace Windows, but only in the cases where it’s sold preinstalled on supported hardware. Android, ChromeOS and Steamdecks are good examples of this.
You’ve hit on a good point, which is that the steam deck is an abnormal success in this space.
But you’ve also missed a point. The install of the OS wasn’t being evaluated. Daily use was.
The daily use thing isn’t going to be an issue because things like drivers and dependencies would be sorted out for end users on a machine thst is being manufactured and sold
Because I’ve been working with the Normal Users for 20 years.
I should think that would make you very much not a “normal” user
I’m not. But I know how normal users operate, which is the point of this post.
Linux is plenty ready for “most users.” I recently saw a meme that applies here, about experts/enthusiasts overestimating the “average normie” in their field even when they’re trying to account for most people not being on their level.
GPU Drivers, app stores
“Most users” scroll Facebook or Twitter and watch Netflix. Distro comes with firefox? GG. 🤷♂️ While I don’t think its widespread (and hope lol,) ever since the Facebook app integrated a web browser there are people (usually younger iirc) who think Facebook IS the internet. Loads of people almost wouldn’t notice if you switched their os overnight, if they have a desktop/laptop at all.
As for people looking to change to Linux due to MS business decisions, let’s be real - they’re by and large already techies. Its also not the 90s anymore, there are resources abound and SOOOO many users to have your problem before you do.
Personal nitpick for me, nothing to do with OP but the overall sentiment - Using the terminal is NOT THAT BALL CRUSHINGLY HARD as people still make it out to be, certainly not for stuff you may need it for in modern times. I have fedora, I need spotify. “sudo dnf install Spotify” “y” ta da. Certainly not an adventure, IMO.
Your post misses the entire point.
While us nerds can work out problems and use a terminal, it doesn’t mean we’re happy to spend our time trouble shooting instead of actually getting shit done.
And the fact that so many of these basic issues should exist in the first place leaves one with the sour taste that they have to hold the OS’s hand forever.
Normal people don’t want to touch the terminal at all.
You really have no clue how inept “most users” are. I’d be extremely surprised if even 20% of the population would be able to use Linux without getting extremely frustrated at the first error, and unable to fix anything themselves.
I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion in general. (If you ignore the Lemmy Linux echo chamber).
A lot of these issues can probably be solved in one of two ways:
-
Buy a computer from a company that sells Linux computers. Hardware issues should be nonexistent, and sometimes there’s even a customized DE that smoothes out package installation.
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Have a friend help you get up and running. I’ve given out a few Mint machines lately, and I always boot it up and preconfigure some stuff before I hand it over.
Generally, I think most modern distros are well within the capability of anyone brave and savvy enough to flash a USB drive and boot their computer from it. If they don’t have that level of technical skill, that’s okay, but then I’d say pick from the two options above.
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I also currently interact with Linux systems regularly although they don’t have a DE and aren’t for general workstation use.
🚩🚩🚩
A line used by every concern troll.
I switched over a year ago and have had zero issues. The lemmings will surely stick with and defend w11, while the people that are tired of being spied on for their data to be better advertised to will move to Linux and realize how bad it was on windows and not believe they didn’t switch sooner.
What’s Windows?
A retirement system the Kremlin uses.
Sorry but most of those points can easily be applied to Windows too. But yes, if you cannot even do simple configuration options, which there’s GUIs for too, or differentiate between distros / Windows versions, then I’m afraid even Windows is not ready to replace Windows.
windows isn’t ready to replace windows. they never have been.
Poor take. 3.1, NT4, 95, 98SE, 2000, xp, 10. All were widely considered to be a considerable improvement over the OS they replaced.
Where Millennium and Visita?? :D
Vista was a sacrifice. They needed vista to be awful so 8+ could fly.
ME was designed by the marketing team.
I really liked Vista, it was the first stable Windows for me that I didn’t have to reinstall once in a while.
Never used 8, I hated it.
Millennium wasn’t just a stunt, but it got bad reputation bcs of not-really compatible drivers with W98.
sure good old fashioned stuff from when I was a baby or something excluding 10 which really didn’t offer much apart from more telemetry than ever and even more convoluted system settings menus. I’ll let the pre-10 releases that weren’t total garbage slide but any widely considered improvement going forward at least will be shills, bots, and ai articles, calling it now.
I suspect with MS pushing their products to be based on webview2 (teams, new outlook, etc) that the next OS they release will be designed for a more efficient cpu architecture, similar to what Apple is doing. Like vista, it will probably suck until it gains more mainstream support.
It’s so wild that I have seen like, four Linux people in my lifetime admit the simple truth that every version of Windows and macOS, iOS and Android since conception have been geared progressively more toward being absolutely friendly to users that are dumb as rocks—in a good way—where Linux has absolutely not. And that this barrier is 100% of the difference between proprietary desktop environments and Linux. Linux is majority developed for power users, full stop. The closest I have seen to the contrary is like, maybe the Adwaita devs, and unfortunately they don’t have the reach to apply their knowledge to essential UX stuff like app installation or hardware compatibility.
This is why I get so frustrated with the “just switch to Linux, loser” crowd, because it’s so utterly disconnected with the reality that most people do not have the resources to invest in any kind of learning curve. It has to be intuitive and accessible from the start. Web developers understand this. MS, Apple, and Google get it. Like, even people who design public transportation understand that they must cater to a user who is drunk and not fluent in the local language when designing signage and systems. Why doesn’t the vast majority of the Linux community get it?
Nice rant. Doesn’t reflect anything I experienced. From all linux users I know just one is a nerd. And he doesn’t develop or interact with any community.
Stop ranting about your desired workflow and start implementing it if in desperate need.
I agree in regards to a through thought ux though!
Downvotes but non formulated opinion. Elaborate please. I strongly believe I am defending the correct intention.
downvotes because your comment was insulting, rude and bossy. it is very possible to defend the correct intention without being unkind and counterproductive.
You are implying quite a few things here.
And apparently under the assumption that you represent the majority/common sense - again.
mean comment - again, blocked lol
100% agree. I hope Cosmic DE can remedy some of those learning curves, but that is a tough ask from a desktop environment .
I mean heck, it took me several months to fully get accustomed to OS X Tiger when I switched from Win XP back in the day.
interesting, TIL! i will definitely look into this. but yeah it does speak volumes that this isn’t even in alpha yet and it’s 2024. specifically hoping the app store and the bluetooth/audio UX are watertight because those are the primary weak points i see for non-power users in GNOME and such.
also doesn’t exactly exude faith that one of their biggest marketing points is… yet another terminal with gpu rendering. hot take: the point of the desktop metaphor has been to bring the user behond the terminal since 1970. expecting the average user to go back to relying on text commands for daily use should not be on the table if you are developing a desktop environment.
Please have babies.
Linux is majority developed for power users, full stop.
I feel this needs to be a sticky at the top of every page on all of Lemmy. This NEEDS to be heard.
With AI being what it is, I’m not going to go past Windows 7.
I’m not going to spend big money on apple devices.
But I can’t figure out Linux. I want to use linux. But I have no ability to.
big fax
careful with w7. not a professional but at least make sure you get a solid up to date antivirus and avoid the sketchier parts of the web :)
Because a lot of them are the kind of computer geek who makes “normies” hate computer geeks. You know the type: condescending, arrogant, passive aggressive, a mild bully. The kind that enjoys making other people who don’t share their hobby feel stupid. I think they should be forced to work in an auto shop, or a house framing crew, or a plumber crew, and see what it feels like to be made to feel stupid on a skill you have no experience in. I worked IT, and these guys are repulsive, especially while they’re mocking and belittling the elderly, or the mentally disabled.
the *nix community has a toxicity problem, absolutely. it’s tradition at this point, a culture stemming back to rtfm. i highly applaud those voices in the FOSS movement that break this stereotype and embrace the user without question.
…they are lucky I don’t have the skills to be in IT. I’m a pretty big guy, and most people confuse me for some hateful ogre out to hurt you. In reality, I want EVERYONE to have a good day! I’m the guy on public transportation who just had a rough day at work, just wants to go home get drunk and watch hockey…but I can’t even do that because my dad decided to call and tell me the results of the game, after I JUST SAID DO NOT SPOIL THE GAME!!! and he proceeds to spoil the game. Now I can’t even relax after a shitty day of work. Yet, I still have to get home, so here I am on the bus…and I see an old woman struggling to get on the bus. Yet the bus driver isn’t lowering the bus.
I’m the guy to get up, help the woman on the bus, and give up my seat for her. I’m still furious at my day, but she wasn’t the cause of it, and I don’t see why the bus driver, nor any other passengers are even attempting to help.
And while I don’t have any stories recently like that on the bus for the disabled, my whole job is pushing people in wheelchairs. My whole job is helping the disabled.
So back to people thinking I’m this big strong ogre, who’s looking to hurt people? I’m not…but there is no quicker way to make that statement true than if you are trying to bully the elderly or disabled. Just because it’s not in my nature to hurt people, doesn’t mean I’m incapable of it.
If I’d have seen those IT guys doing that, they’d have a new hospital bill, and I’d have lost a job. Maybe went to jail. Probably would have hurt myself as much as I hurt them, since I’m not a fighter, but I’d come charging in like a 300lbs bull just fucking shit up.
Honestly… I love Linux with all my heart. I can firsthand say that the Linux Desktop is 20 thousand times better than when I got into it around the first Ubuntu betas, but it’s still quite a mess in certain areas. It often boils down to the hardware and software you expect to run on it (or viable alternatives, if they exist) being compatible or not.
Most people don’t install anything beyond office tools (and even those are switching to various cloud systems).
Also, I know it
iswas a thing, but I never had driver issues (ok, one wifi card in like 2005), I think drivers aren’t really an issue anymore, maybe some proprietary stuff (fingerprint readers?).
(As a funny side note, I have a wired laptop I can’t get good Win drivers, but works perfectly out of the box with at least a few distros (openSUSE, Fedora, Debian).)I manage 3 computers for my family, all run Linux for 10+ years. And I upgrade them frequently (with my old components most of the time :)). As I don’t live with any of them I don’t really want issues that would prevent their use. And beyond some bigger updates (versions or largely change from X11 to Wayland) over the years there is like an issue every few years. And now they all run Tumbleweed, so so no versions (set to upade monthly for their convenience).
Oh, and the og reason for Linux was because there were always constant issues with Windows. Im not gonna install XPs every few months.
ill upvote do to zorinos
Non-FOSS operating systems treat me like a product.
That’s not good enough.
Windows isn’t good enough to replace the Unix/linux desktops I’ve been running for the past 35 years.
