Lol. This is the party they want to replace ‘genocide joe’ with. Well done, kids!
Yes but see, if we just sit on our hands and don’t vote we won’t have any responsibility for what follows! Only voting for someone who is less than ideal on this issue is a morally bad choice!
I totally understand the point most of them are trying to make and agree with the sentiment, but they’re fucking morons. 100% absolute jibbering idiots.
This is an ugly binary choice here because the United States electoral system is a steaming pile of horse shit. Do what I, your friendly neighborhood lefty, am doing and swallow your pride and vote for center right Joe Biden because he’s leagues better than the dementia-addled, fascist Cheeto Benito. Then take all the disgust you’ve built up by voting for and living with another neoliberal corporate shill presidency and work your ass off to make sure we don’t have to keep voting between Dumb and Dumber every fucking election.
Do it because we’ll only be gently tiptoeing to the right under a Biden presidency, so it’s less likely you’ll end up in jail for discussing the “wrong” political ideology while that orange shitstained merkin would have me in jail just for writing this were it up to him. Don’t make it up to him.
I would like to solve your trolley problem with multi track drifting please
That’s only worked a handful of times, long ago.
So you’re saying if I vote, I’ll be complicit and won’t have anything to complain or blame others about, and have to take responsibility for the consequence of my vote? Fuck that shit!
I don’t think I said that. Can you show me where I did?
I will say that you have a slice of responsibility over the future, and you’ll have to live with the consequences of whatever decision you end up making - including the one where you sit on your hands. No matter what you do, you can still complain about it, but the future will be whichever one we collectively steer to. One of those possible futures is worse than the other. So it seems to me that we should steer away from it, rather than wrong our hands about how we don’t like the choices. Sure, you don’t like the choices. They’re the choices regardless. Model the outcomes of each possibility, decide which one you hate the least and steer towards it, because we are getting a future selected from among the possibilities. Jesus is not going to rapture us out of this.
Forgot the /s. But the kids seem to believe that sitting it out in protest is better than voting the lesser of 2 evils. This is how a dictator comes into power. Agree with everything you said.
Yeah, I’ve been having this argument a lot lately, so the sarcasm shit right past me. It’s exhausting trying to get people to understand that no, really, genocide a * 3 plus additional genocide b is worse than genocide a alone.
You do realize that “less than ideal” is probably an inadequate way to describe Joe funding a genocidal apartheid, right?
It’s astonishing to me how comfortable you are with fascism, provided it wears a blue jersey.
Yes. Humans are given to certainty and judgement in excess of what the evidence merits, so I have taken to understatement.
I’m not convinced that Joe Biden is fascism, though. Would you be so kind as to compare him to Umberto eco’s list, and share examples on each point? Trump seems like a much better match to that, but perhaps I have missed something.
I’m gonna vote for Biden if I have to rise from the dead and crawl through broken glass to do so, and I hope everyone reading this thread does.
I’m not willing to pretend he’s not facilitating an ongoing genocide though.
Truth. Unfortunately. Brandon 2024.
I’m not.
I’m not American nor in the US.
Lucky you lol
Not really. I’m in Northern Ireland and my vote does fuck all to affect who’s elected UK Prime Minister. The current governing party runs candidates here but they’ve never won a seat and their closest competitors don’t run any candidates at all here. Never mind I live in a stronghold seat so it won’t change anyway.
Have you tried driving your neighbors to the polling place and before you get there telling them how the other candidate fed glass to your dog?
Personal failure, smh
This. You deal with the choice in front of you, and not the ones you wish you had. Life is bigger than our little worlds.
Who makes you pretend that? You guys all want a medal for preaching to the choir?
The Democratic party expects their members to pretend that what’s happening in Gaza is not a genocide. They censured Rep Tlaib for saying so in Congress.
Or, it’s actually not.
Reported as election interference
So what you’re saying is that you’re a-okay with fascism and genocide, provided it wears a blue jersey?
I don’t think anyone is saying that. You’re just arguing in bad faith.
I see a whole lot of excuses flying form Democrats to try and distract from the fact that they’re voting for Genocide Joe in November.
This thread is littered with them.
Nah… while you’re dead, they’ll just use your last address of residency and full name to cast your vote for you. You can enjoy staying in the grave-slumber.
It would be nice if people actually knew what they were talking about though. Biden is REQUIRED by a law that was put in place years ago to provide Israel with weapons.
Oh get out of here with your facts. The kids are having a circlejerk. They weren’t born at the time. They can’t be expected to know these things.
Oh, he’s just following orders!
It’s not like we have other laws requiring you not to support genocide for this exact situation that he can use to halt arms shipments.
What is that law? Closest I think I can get is HR 4986 sec 227 which mentions Israel, but I can’t read further. Who put it in place?
From the linked politico article,
Legally, the U.S. can’t cut Israel off completely. Since 2008, the U.S. has had to weigh all arms sales to Israel and other countries in the region against the requirement that Israel maintains a “qualitative military edge” against all enemies, both state and non-state actors.
In 2008, George W. Bush was in his second term as president.
Yes, Bush was the president for most of 2008. Obama got a short portion, although the exact president in place doesn’t necessarily tell you if they agreed anyway. Since president’s don’t really write law, I was looking for the exact law to see the history of which representatives were pushing it. I wanted to see what the angle was for that piece of the bill and what else was attached to it. Nothing gets passed as an individual law, meaning it was probably a rider in a much larger group of laws that likely made it a non-negotiable requirement bundled into a more pressing matter.
But I guess 9+ people read my simple question as total contempt for the situation.
This is the faction a lot of our elected leaders think should be ‘strong’.
Tankies don’t show up to forums about headlines they can’t cram into their preordained propaganda forms.
Yeah, those stupid kids should just realize that one constant in America is that we kill or enable the killing of children. They should just accept that children will be killed in their name and get over themselves like us grown ups.
No, it isn’t.
We want to replace Genocide Joe with the Greens.
Unfortunately most American voters lack a conscience, so it’s not going to happen.
Lmao, comment more.
You’re definitely not making yourself look like you need live-in nursing care to wipe your ass.
You’re also making really REALLY good, logical fair points and you’re totally not moving the goalposts.
Take your bad faith ba to .ml or hexbear, you troglodyte.
Joe Biden is a lot more efficient at getting weapons Israel needs for their genocide than Trump ever will be.
Joe Biden has received more Israeli political donations than any other United States politician in history. Full stop.
Get your head out of your ass
Propagandists are so funny. It’s like…. You make shit up that can’t be proven, verified, or is otherwise even remotely realistic, and then you pretend it’s real to the point that you’re willing to argue it online with total strangers.
It’s blows my mind how this is done.
While quick math shows their claim untrue, what is true is that Biden has received over 5.7 million over the course of his career .
Which firmly places him at the top of pro-Israel donor pools.
There’s also no question that Trump is a vastly worse candidate… this doesn’t make Biden a good candidate.
I never said he was a great candidate. I simply said that propagandists seem to have it out for Biden.
Surprising they’re always silent with their criticism of anything from the right.
Ever wonder why?
K
Talking to reporters, Haley was unapologetic, criticising Joe Biden’s administration for temporarily withholding weapons as a means of discouraging an Israeli attack on the southern Gaza city of Rafah, and aiming barbs at the international criminal court (ICC) – which is seeking Netanyahu’s arrest – and the international court of justice (ICJ), which is considering charges of genocide against Israel.
“What America needs to understand is if Israel’s fighting our enemies, how can we not help them,” said Haley, whose missile message also carried the words “America loves Israel”.
“The sure way to not help Israel is to withhold weapons. The sure way to not help Israel is to praise the ICC, the ICJ or any of those that are condemning Israel instead of condemning what happens.
“America needs to do whatever Israel needs and stop telling them how to fight this war. You are either a friend or not a friend.”
“America needs to do whatever Israel needs and stop telling them how to fight this war. You are either a friend or not a friend.”
She reminds me of an alcoholic friend I had in college. Telling you to stop doesn’t mean I hate you. It means you’re making bad decisions.
Ok, but Trump literally said he deports anybody who protests Israel
How is this better than Joe, who says that Isreal will lose us support if they don’t stop and prioritize civilian safety in their attacks?
Joe Biden is a lot more efficient at getting weapons Israel needs for their genocide than Trump ever will be.
Anybody out there who can vet this? Cuz if I wanted a twice-impeached president victory I think I would post:
45 is a lot more efficient at getting weapons Israel needs for their genocide than Biden ever will be.
Joe Biden is a lot more efficient at getting weapons Israel needs for their genocide than Trump ever will be
^^ That is a heaping pile of BULLSHIT.
the point is not to make more people vote trump (everyone who is morally bankrupt enough will do that anyway)
the point is FUD, so that biden voters stay home (good for trump) or vote 3rd party (which would be valid if it weren’t a first past the post system)
The point might actually be to sink Biden’s approval rating so low that he’s forced to reverse course on the specific thing making him unpopular and less likely to win.
I’m not defending Biden, but the view that Trump would be any less prepared to keep sending Israel weapons is utterly baseless. He wouldn’t even pretend to care about the Palestinians, for one thing.
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas
What a cunt
She’s a typical modern Republican politician. She loves money, and will support literally anyone who cuts taxes, and works to remove regulations that hinder profit. That’s it. That’s all they care about. All the culture war stuff is to keep the poors blaming each other than coming after her masters.
Nah she’s a neo-con warhawk.
That comes with the ideology.
Why would you think it’s a good political move to sign a bomb in such a controversial conflict. It boggles my mind who suggested that as a good idea.
The conflict is only controversial to one party.
To some of these people there’s no such thing as bad media coverage.
Lemmy is a bubble. Most people don’t give half a shit about a small town worth of people in some their world failed state run by terrorists.
Behold, the moderate Republican.
The Moderate Republican, folks.
Why WHY would Joe Biden sign off on providing Nikki Haley with PERMANENT MARKERS!
Thanks, Obama.
FYI: Most of those braindead “am I not allowed to criticize Biden???” comments and posts on social media are a concerted effort by right-wingers from /pol and other such sewers, trying to get people to not vote against Trump. Don’t fall for it. These aren’t “lefties” or “tankies”. Just downvote, report, and ignore.
Maybe they’re involved, but a much bigger player pushing that line of reasoning is the Kremlin. They want to get Trump elected again so he cuts aid to Ukraine.
And work to undermine NATO.
Plus, there’s 4 years of new Top Secret info for Trump to turn over to Putin.
You think he’ll give up power after four years? He’s already actively undermining the US’ democracy.
I was talking the last 4 years of Top Secret info created during the Biden administration. Because you know that Biden, unlike Trump, isn’t giving away our Top Secret info to Putin. But, Trump will package it all up neatly with a bow, and hand it over to Putin the first chance he gets.
Why are they wasting effort on like 200 leftist techies? They could get a lot more bang for their buck on Facebook.
They are on all social media platforms.
They have plenty of automated bots there too
Democrats not doing all the faschie shit they claim to be saving us from challenge level impossible.
Don’t like Joe? You’re a bot. Have a laundry list of gripes about Joe? Nope you’re a single issue voter whining about a single racial cleansing like a baby.
Blue MAGA out here working overtime blaming the left for any and every Democratic loss, claim to hate Republicans but will hand an election to them every 4 years before they concede even an inch to the left instead of sprinting right to “court voters” that were NEVER going to vote with them.
That kind of propaganda is very common now so it makes sense that people have their guards up.
Awww poor guy
Typical republican filth.
How can they say they love Israel but also say Jews run everything and be generally negative towards Jews here?
“Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality. Doublethink is related to, but differs from, hypocrisy.”
Edited to add:
It’s a common tactic with fascist regimes. Nazis used to do it with Jewish propaganda by simultaneously claiming that Jews were weak vermin that needed to be exterminated and that they are this supervillain that controls all the money.
You currently see it a lot with the people chanting “Genocide Joe” and claiming he is some mastermind warhawk with at the same time claiming that he is some feeble, senile old man. He’s Schrödinger’s politician!
Ah I remember the days of “Obama, The Weak-Willed Tyrant” an incompetent man with a genius level intellect according to Fox News…
Edit: For context, I’m talking about 2008-2015ish when the Right claimed Obama was too soft to stand up to America’s enemies and was this “weak child of a man”, and that he was also this evil corrupt tyrant who gave no one an inch, claiming him to be a moron and yet also a diabolical mastermind plotting the Muslim Takeover of America
The amount of Racism was fucking unreal. Especially down here in the South, I rolled my eyes at a lot of “Vote for the Mormon, not the Muslim!” in 2012
Obama’s not even Arabic! Why the fuck did everyone think he was a muslim? And even if he was, who fucking cares?
Do you remember during the 2008 campaign when there was criticism over Obama’s pastor being too outspoken in his church? In back to back segments fox would reflect on Obama’s dangerous version of Christianity while also saying he was a Muslim…
Why the fuck did everyone think he was a muslim?
Barack Hussein Obama
I don’t know man. You tell me.
I feel like most people believe one or the other and the internet makes groups feel like one big person.
I feel like that may be true also, but I was referring to the groups pushing the agenda/propaganda, not the ones being affected by it. The ones propagandizing doublethink are the big issue IMO.
You have gravely misunderstood the Genocide Joe label, lol
So what do you think the Republican leadership hopeful Nikki Haley meant by writing “finish them” on an Israeli bomb?
Liberals 🤣
That’s almost the most evasive thing you could have said. The question was what do you think the Republican leadership hopeful Nikki Haley meant by writing “finish them” on an Israeli bomb?
That they’re as genocidal as the Democrats.
That doesn’t make Biden a criminal mastermind playing 4d chess, it makes him a head of state who supports it.
This doesn’t make sense bro, are you ok?
You’re equating Biden, who said don’t bomb Rafah with Hayley who said kill them all? Riiiiight.
These are the people that are going to be ruling America soon.
These are the people who have been ruling America for a long time.
And it will be the end of popular elections, period. Congratulations, assholes, you got your dictatorship to own the cucks.
That’ll happen when you give Democrats the presidency and a majority in Congress and all they do with it is issue blank checks for war instead of addressing the needs of the poor and working class.
It’s a replay of 2016, when Hillary (and Obama before her) ignored the Rust Belt and it lost her the presidency.
Oh? and what are republicans doing for the poor and working class?
If your reflexive response is: “But they suck too!” you should realize it’s not the fantastic defense you think it is.
It is when one side is better.
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Failed Republican presidential nominees writing on artillery shells is the result of Democrats in the White House and Congress? Interesting.
No.
The bombs are the result of Democrats in the White House and Congress, seeing as how they’re the ones in power and they support arming a genocidal apartheid. What people write on them isn’t of any real consequence to me. I’m angry about the fact that we’re still sending them weapons.
Why is it that you’ve never once said anything critical of anything from the right? I’d love an answer if you’re able.
Because even on a post that’s specifically critical of the right, you do nothing but bring up Biden. That’s VERY curious.
The evil of the right is self-evident.
But I count it more evil to pretend one is progressive and then do exactly the same things the right-wing people are doing.
Riiiiiight…. And you think other people will accept this as a reason?
Not at all.
Democrats, by and large, don’t accept any criticism of their party, preferring instead to make excuses or feign powerlessness on the part of their elected officials. (They share that trait with Republicans, in fact.)
And then an instance happens where having the same position as the Republicans means you either have to accept genocide or pretend in your head that you’re still morally superior while the president you want us all to vote for sends the weapons over to make it happen.
It’s like that meme with the red button. Your cognitive dissonance is impressive.
Oh you’re saying the Republicans in power don’t agree with providing weapons to Israel?
Haley is one sick puppy.
Uh oh, don’t tell Kristi Noem…
On the contrary…
Maybe Noem will step up. Do what’s necessary.
This woman has no soul
Same lady who rolls up her windows when traveling through the “bad part of town”
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Nikki is no moderate.
Moderate by GOP standards. Moderately less of a nazi or something like that
She’s not even that. She went full Nazi when she called for the culling of the American people. Gas chambers and concentration camps.
She’s the spitting image of American centrism.
See, that’s why I can’t vote for Biden. /s
I mean, Biden’s the reason those bombs are there to begin with.
If you actually cared about Palestine to survive, your best bet is to vote Biden.
All the alternatives will make the situation literally worse.
But you don’t care about Palestine do you? You just want Trump to win. Since your overlord Pootin commanded you to.
If you actually cared about Palestine, you’d be on the streets demanding immediate action instead of begging people to check a box months from now when half a million Palestinians have starved to death.
Who says I haven’t?
Because you’re hyper fixated on a vote months from now that won’t help Palestinians at the current moment? Your priorities are pretty clear.
Nice work, Dimitri, how’s the weather in St. Petersburg?
If I’m Dmitri, you’re Hermann.
I’m not the one sitting here making excuses for apartheid and genocide, Hermann.
No, you’re the one supporting the side whose potential VP candidate wrote “Finish them” on a piece of artillery to be used in the genocide that you pretend to be against, because she rightly believes their base will eat it up and doing so will help her get elected.
You just outed yourself, only Russians would know how to spell “Dmitri” right
Nope sorry only explanation is that you’re Russian. Or if you somehow prove you’re not Russian, then you’re a useful idiot. Even the people who have voted third party for years, you’ve actually always been Russian.
Another lie.
You drop older stock bombs first so you don’t have to decommission them. Everyone knows that. Israel already has all the bombs it needs to turn all of Gaza and the West Bank into a sheet of glass a dozen times over. Wtf are you talking about Biden sent them the weapons? American policy as to Israel has everything to do with its posture as to Iran and fuck all to do with Israel’s posture as to Gaza, except that the West will not let Gaza or the West Bank fall into the hands of Iranian backed terrorists, i.e. Hamas.
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