For all your boycotting needs. I’m sure there’s some mods caught in lemmy.ml’s top 10 that are perfectly upstanding and reasonable people, my condolences for the cross-fire.
- !memes@lemmy.world and !memes@sopuli.xyz. Or of course communities that rule.
- !asklemmy@lemmy.world
- !linux@programming.dev. Quite small, plenty of more specific ones available. Also linux is inescapable on lemmy anyway :)
- !programmer_humor@programming.dev
- !world@lemmy.world
- !privacy@lemmy.world and maybe !privacyguides@lemmy.one, lemmy.one itself seems to be up in the air. !fedigrow@lemm.ee says !privacy@lemmy.ca. They really seem to be hiding even from another, those tinfoil hats :)
- !technology@lemmy.world
- Seems like !comicstrips@lemmy.world and !comicbooks@lemmy.world, various smaller comic-specifc communities as well as !eurographicnovels@lemm.ee
- !opensource@programming.dev
- !fuckcars@lemmy.world
(Out of the loop? Here’s a thread on lemmy.ml mods and their questionable behaviour)
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Didn’t we do this yesterday?
I think it’s good to have regular outreach. I just subscribed to the linux community from this one.
The other post also has me considering moving my account to a different instance. There were some compelling arguments against centralizing on lemmy.world. (I don’t strongly disagree with the moderation here but I do somewhat disagree with centralizing admin power like on reddit.)
I wouldn’t mind seeing these regularly. But maybe it would be nice to have someone make specific accounts for that purpose so you can easily block them out of your feed.
I wouldn’t mind seeing these regularly.
Feel free to join us on !fedigrow@lemm.ee
Done! Thank you
I like to think of .world as a introduction point for the fediverse. I think it should be trigger happy with defederation to keep the instance approachable by the mainstream then let people choose other instances based on what they offer.
I moved to lemm.ee cos they d9nt defederate from many people and that aligns with my whole ideology on free speach.
Are our accounts portable yet? Until they are most people (especially contributors used to the fake internet points system) are going to stick with their first account with fake internet points.
U can export and import pfp and followed communities etc but not votes or posts.
Cool, TIL, just curious about what happens to the posts you’ve made, if you delete your old account?
Its the fediverse nothing ever gets deleted its shared across all federated peers its the one downside to moving away from centralisation.
Export/import subscriptions in your settings
There is no karma on Lemmy, no reason to stay attached
I guess this more a top 10 list than our extensive thread
Yeah this is post 65534 on how lemmy.ml is bad, centralizing on lemmy.world is best. Two more and we’ll get a nice round number!
deleted by creator
OpenMW’s official Lemmy community has been on lemmy.ml since 2021, way before lemmy.world existed (and most other instances, too), and way before there was any inter-instance drama. It’s becoming increasingly likely that it’s not going to be a suitable long-term home, but we’d be much happier if we could migrate the existing community rather than start from scratch with a new one. Is there any way to do that yet?
IMO organizations should self-host their official communities. If you’re going to move, it ought to be to something like !openmw@lemmy.openmw.org.
In addition to the obvious benefits of having admin control/being able to avoid moderation drama imposed by others, it also means you could have more than one community: maybe !openmw for general discussion, plus !modding, !development, etc.
+1, larger community projects really should try to spin up their own Lemmy hosting on whatever infra they already have for message boards
Rather !announcements@lemmy.openmw.org, !general@lemmy.openmw.org, !bugs@lemmy.openmw.org, … etc.
So much more flexibility for organizations to build structured communities!
I had a look at your community, do you want to save post and comments?
If not, the easiest way is to announce on the current community where you are going to move, then lock it, so that people indeed move to the new one.
I did it from !casualconversation@lemmy.world to !casualconversation@lemm.ee, it worked quite well.
but we’d be much happier if we could migrate the existing community rather than start from scratch with a new one. Is there any way to do that yet?
Migrating content over should be doable by a sufficiently tech-savvy admin, subscribers, I don’t think so.
Community migration is coming in future releases of Lemmy but right now it’s not possible.
We love to be the home of smaller communities, but for sure, any larger ones should look into running on their own setup. If you need help, drop us a line!
!openmw@lemmy.ml has less than 150 subscribers, so it’s definitely not large. We’re already swamped with infrastructure work for the stuff we already self-host, so I don’t think we’ll be running our own Lemmy instance any time soon.
Makes sense!
I enjoy OpenMW and I’m happy to host if you want, although my instance is basically just me and a few friends right now.
The way that I see it, the issue with lemmy ml’s administration and moderation is not quite political in origin. It’s about transparency; and I think that this wall of text that I wrote about how lemmy dot ml handled ani.social shows it well, as the dispute in question was not political in nature. (I can abridge it at request.)
With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”. I don’t have anything against LW’s administration, but I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further, it defeats the point of a federation. That instance is already 40% of the MAUs, and hosts the largest comms using Lemmy.
The way that I see it, the issue with lemmy ml’s administration and moderation is not quite political in origin. It’s about transparency
Well it’s really both. The issue is the combination of a number of factors which on their own would be fairly easy to deal with, but put together they are very problematic:
- The admins are political extremists
- lemmy.ml has a very prominent position in the lemmyverse, because they were first and got a headstart
- The admins are actively using their position to heavily police discussion according to their extremist political views. The fact that they’re not being transparent about it is aggravating, but not the root problem.
This prominent position of lemmy.ml is the fundamental difference with the hexbear or lemmygrad situation. Those instances can easily be contained at the user level: most people can just block and ignore them entirely because nothing interesting happens on those instances for non-extremists. Not so with lemmy.ml, which hosts a number of large bona-fide communities.
So I think it’s necessary to make a concerted effort to reduce lemmy.ml’s prominence in the fediverse, so that political extremists can’t put their thumb on the scale to nudge discussion in a certain direction. Part of that effort is raising awareness about lemmy.ml’s nature, which is what this PSA does, but that likely won’t be enough due to network effect. It will take more to get people to move their communities to other instances. If other large instances, like lemmy.world, would block lemmy.ml that would provide a real stimulus for a large amount of people to move away from lemmy.ml.
With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”. I don’t have anything against LW’s administration, but I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further
I agree that spreading out more would be desirable, but on the other hand “just use lemmy.world instead of lemmy.ml” is a very simple and practical suggestion to move away from ml.
I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further, it defeats the point of a federation.
It defeats some of the points of federation, but there are still a lot of reasons why federation is still worth doing even if there’s essentially one dominant provider. Not least of which is that sometimes the dominant provider does get displaced over time. We’ve seen it happen with email a few times, where the dominant provider loses market share to upstarts, one of whom becomes the new dominant provider in some specific use case (enterprise vs consumer, mobile vs desktop vs automation/scripting, differences by nation or language), and where the federation between those still allows the systems to communicate with each other.
Applied to Lemmy/kbin/mbin and other forum-like social link aggregators, I could see LW being dominant in the English-speaking, American side of things, but with robust options outside of English language or communities physically located outside of North America. And we’ll all still be able to interact.
With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”.
It’s where big replacement communities happen to be, that’s all there is to it. Avoiding centralisation is a good thing in general but “tired of .ml mods? Here’s alternatives” isn’t the right time to go for it I think. Maybe the admins can come up with a scheme to round-robin disable community creation or something, to spread things out. Also, community migration is in the pipeline software-wise that would help a lot.
I’m thinking that perhaps the community could/should go a step further, and create another instance to talk about open source and privacy. That would be IMO the best scenario - it would be a great counterpoint to .ml, and it would avoid centralising Lemmy around .world even further.
(I also feel like this might be better even for the devs. Administrative work isn’t exactly pleasing, and if I had to take a guess they mostly maintain that instance because they need it for the software. But that’s just a guess, don’t trust me on that.)
inb4: yes, I know - easier said than done. But I feel like it could be a good option.
FYI, a post on !fedigrow@lemm.ee about a !privacy community: https://mander.xyz/post/13928027
Lots of good suggestions there. It would be great if @barsoap@lemm.ee mentioned at least !privacy@lemmy.ca and !privacy@links.hackliberty.org in the OP.
FYI, an update on the !fedigrow@lemm.ee post on the !privacy community: https://lemm.ee/post/34088759?scrollToComments=true
Long story short, !privacy@lemmy.ca is a nice option, it even has more active users per week than the LW equivalent (376 vs 346)
Added
Thanks!
I keep seeing posts about ml recently. Is it time to migrate off? I joined it because it was like the only instance available during the start of the reddit migration and it says “FOSS and privacy enthusiasts” which I am. I didn’t even care to know what a tankie was until my all feed started to fill up with so. much. politics. including from lemmygrad and hexbear for the last few months. Fellow ml users seemed normal too.
Idk friends I just want to wear linux knee socks and engage with my niches. I didn’t expect all the hail china or seeing “removed” all the time or to end up being grouped in with lemmygrad and hexbear by users from other instances.
Sounds like programming.dev might be a good fit, or perhaps dbzer0?
Those seem indeed good choices
Last I checked, dbzer0 is unfortunately still federated with the instance where if you name it everyone from it will start calling you a Nazi b/c you don’t want to lick Stalin’s feet. It’s not as much of a problem here, but it’s still something to consider.
Edit: getting targeted by tankies illustrates my point beautifully, so TY everyone who is making my argument for me.
To be specific, we are defed from grad, but not hexbutt or lemmy.marxist-leninist unfortunately.
There’s few enough that I can get by blocking everyone with an account from hexbutt. Haven’t gotten a personal message telling me to kms or a shock link since I moved my main account.
Same here. I will say though, I wish we damn would defed hexbutt lol few or not it’s too damn many.
So just block them.
More like CCP and propaganda enthusiasts
The onslaught of fediverse karen posts about lemmy.ml continues.
I mean it’s obviously run by Russia so anything that makes people realise you can’t trust anything that comes out of it is good.
This is just xenophobic
i thank Stalin for embedding bullshit detectord into all his subjugated people (excluding Russians) and trump for improving it✨😊✨
“Everything I don’t like is Russian or Chinese.”
“Here you see one of the prime examples of a lemmy.world liberal turned xenophobe. Swallowing up the hate towards current enemy of the USA and projecting it onto everything they don’t like”
Like I don’t think the .ml admins are remotely in the right, but politically illiterate libs seeing ghosts everywhere is funny af
(or at least it would be if they didn’t generalize everything evil in this world on Russians or Chinese and dominate one of the largest Lemmy instances)- Yours truly, an actually Russian person with a migration background <3
cs-rin-ru
The views of .ml mods have not affected me. I don’t really check my subscription feed, only /all or /top->day, therefor im still exposed to all those other communities.
The only instances that I’ve noticed are missing are porn related, and as an asexual, I don’t have an interest in them. If I did, I could just visit a different site, like pornhub or w/e
Not all .ml users are tankies, or communist, or foss enthusiasts. I’m just a guy who likes memes and tech
It affects people who think that Lemmy.ml is the default instance, as it says itself and people say that any instance is fine to join.
It also affects people in the batshit insane comments that come from people on that instance, like lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net, that occur with noticeably higher frequency than from other places.
It also affects people on that instance who talk as if into a void with many people blocking their instance but they don’t even know that. And that effect will increase over time.
It lowers traffic on the Fediverse, decreasing overall engagement, and drives people away from it altogether. It also lowers the likelihood that you can recommend to people irl to check out the Fediverse - when THAT stuff (e.g. defense of genocide) is seen it tends to turn people off who aren’t used to it or who are tech or culture savvy enough to know how to handle it.
So it does affect you, I promise, even if not directly, and over the next few months will do so increasingly as your instance turns into more of an echo chamber than it has been in the past, as more people block it either individually or at an instance level.
Agreed that many of the users are regular people who are just innocently getting swept up in all of this due to the actions of the admins. Just like users of Reddit were when spez did his power flex moves.
You might want to at least make an alt somewhere else so that you get some experiences that your .ml account increasingly will start to lack.
I hear you. When I first joined .ml, they were pressing for people NOT to join it. To create their own instances so that .ml didn’t become a central entity, and get overwhelmed with users. The latter did occur during the reddit exodus.
I also agree that they can curate and manipulate the instance to their ideals, which will limit casual users and their reach.
I don’t feel like I’m being secluded, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. I have seen hate for .ml users and hexbear users, and I really don’t get it. The fediverse shouldn’t be segregating users based on what instance they’re in. That’s like saying all US citizens are awful because they live there.
I don’t feel like I’m being secluded, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. I have seen hate for .ml users and hexbear users, and I really don’t get it. The fediverse shouldn’t be segregating users based on what instance they’re in. That’s like saying all US citizens are awful because they live there.
I agree with you for Lemmy.ml
I’m not so sure about hexbear, people don’t randomly end up there
I did. I stumbled upon a post to chapotraphouse while browsing the All feed from startrek.website that had not defederated it at the instance level. And similarly I found a politics (or maybe it was a memes) community on lemmygrad.ml that same way too! It seems neither of those are defederated from that server still. And on discuss.online while lemmygrad.ml is defederated, hexbear.net is not.
Probably you meant people don’t sign up with a login on those instances randomly, but I thought I would add the above perspective at least - that anyone across the Fediverse can get there randomly, if the defederation is not at the instance level.
The fediverse shouldn’t be segregating users based on what instance they’re in.
If an instance is full of authoritarian propaganda and extreme censorship then actual users should leave.
Right, so we should unblock the nazi instances like exploding heads because they have one cool guy there maybe?
Wait, you need a passport to leave .ml and make a new acct, and have to endure a long process and spend thousands of dollars to become a citizen there? Oh so it’s a lot less like people trapped in the US than you thought I guess.
Man I’m gonna level with you, I’d prefer if most people on those instances weren’t assholes causing problems everywhere on lemmy since all they are is brigadiers, but since they are, you will be associated with them by being one even just in name. Unfortunate, but human nature.
I don’t feel like I’m being secluded
You probably aren’t… yet, but you will become thus, increasingly over time.
For the past half a year I have defended lemmy.ml, saying that its users are nowhere near as bad as hexbear.net or lemmygrad.ml (just… visit them, you’ll see fairly quickly what they are all about). And that much is still true - the users are quite often innocent.
Though not 100% so, and now this with the admins, I will block lemmy.ml soon. I have already started blocking some of its communities, like all the politically-themed memes were simply not fun to keep appearing in my feed, unlike the many other meme communities scattered throughout the fediverse. I am missing out on basically nothing but contention, which has noticeably improved my experience of the Fediverse.
Yes, I am throwing out some babies along with the bathwater, but I am okay with that. The point is to foster a sense of enjoyment and peace, rather than constantly argue with people who are not engaging in good faith to begin with. I left Reddit for good reason, and believe it or not I would have left it regardless of all of spez’s bullshit.
Imagine my dismay when coming to the Fediverse, I make the mistake of ONE comment in chapotraphouse, and I got like a hundred replies of the most batshit insane, derogatory, bad-mannered and bad-faithed “arguments”, which lasted for WEEKS long after I stopped responding. I was being “dunked on”, which they LOVE, and which - apparently, much to my dismay upon finding out - is the literal purpose of that community. I almost left the entire Fediverse after that.
Well, it did not help that I made the same mistake upon replying to a comment in some political community on lemmygrad.ml. It was those two events together that almost made me leave. However, fortunately for me Lemmy v0.19.3 came out just as I was mulling that issue over, so I blocked those two instances, and now I am as happy as a clam. Honestly this issue with Lemmy.ml is nowhere near as bad as those two instances. But it’s still not great, it still impacts people - e.g. it will impact you far more than me - and it will hurt all of us if we cannot recommend to irl people to come to the Fediverse, b/c they are likely to see that stuff and be put off by it. And therefore all the content that they may have offered for our consumption is gone along with it.
An analogy might be: how much fecal matter is okay to appear in your food? We can spend a large amount of time curating our own experiences here to avoid that, but how likely is a non-Linux-using average person who might want to leave Reddit and come here to be even willing to do that, before they can start enjoying their interactions here? That “shit” demeans us all.
That’s like saying all US citizens are awful because they live there.
I suggest a different analogy instead. Crime in the USA in general has gone down substantially in recent decades, but let’s say that you wanted to walk the streets of NYC in the 80s-early 90s. It’s not “just b/c they are there”, but rather “crime is MUCH more likely to occur there, than other places”. If you choose to go there, you are making a probabilistic bet that you will survive the encounter. Maybe you will… or maybe your child will become Batman after you get brutally murdered in front of him, but either way, past some threshold it becomes a foolish bet to have chanced it, in return for what gain even?
You and I do not get to decide upon the preferences of others. Many will leave Lemmy altogether, rather than put up with this stuff. I at least will block Lemmy.ml, but that leaves the newest and least aware and therefore most vulnerable people to still have to deal with it. In the meantime, we are conversing about it, letting people know about the problems that we all face, together.
I have noticed the high level of political memes and threads and don’t care for it. I didn’t understand why they were so common, I thought we were all trying to get away from politics.
I will try a different instance and report back.
Possibly a good comparison could be memes@lemmy.ml vs. the two alternatives mentioned in the OP - I really wanted to keep the former, but politics kept creeping in and just made the experience un-fun so eventually I blocked it all. I thought perhaps the mods were simply lazy, I had little idea of the systemic issues across lemmy.ml altogether.
So I decided to go to sopuli.xyz. Viewing their all/hot is not much different than what I have now. However Sopuli is closer to what I expected .ml to be. There are some instances with zero defederations (completely unsensored), but I’m happy not seeing porn, discrimination, or ads in their feed. @Oka@sopuli.xyz
I thought we were all trying to get away from politics.
First of all, why would you think that? Second of all, everything is political so that is literally impossible. And third of all, only centrists who want things to stay exactly as they are, because they feel they are are benefiting from the status quo, ever say such things.
OOTL on this one, what happened on lemmy.ml?
Criticizing China on lemmy.ml goes about as well as evangelizing crypto on awful.systems. Join an instance that shares your values or roll your own. Know your audience or get the hammer.
It’s like a huge chunk of the population out here has never experienced a forum before.
It is far more than just that. Removing comments is one thing, mass-banning from many communities at once despite never even having commented in them at all is another, but the real issue is using database manipulation to delete the log entries as to why the comments were removed after the fact.
Even if unintentional, which strains credulity, this is some spez-level stuff going on, edit: where we have the option to either take what a single person (who does not seem inclined to follow their own stated rules) offers, or else we can leave. Many are choosing the latter, and like the Rexodus, making the situation known to others as well in the process.
“Criticizing China” was merely the spark that lit the match, with the situation offering proof of what apparently people have been suspecting for some time now.
The sad part is that this situation was entirely predictable a year ago.
The Lemmy devs (who also run lemmy.ml) made no secret of who they are and what they believe. Especially dessalines.
I do think they have made a very good piece of software. And I think we’re better off here than on Reddit. At least it is more difficult for one asshole to ruin everything. We have tools to block people and instances, so it doesn’t matter as much even if they’re in charge.
I worry that if lemmy.ml continues to be run the way that it is, then it will bleed over into the software side, and we would be forced to fork Lemmy. So far though, despite running lemmy.ml like assholes, the actual development seems fine – not too different from any other open source project (I only remember that one issue where dessalines completely failed to understand why a user would want to block an instance).
The irony is that, despite creating a tool with what seems like very socialist principles (it gives users & communities a lot of power, and doesn’t centralize that power with one person), those principles are often lost on the devs in favor of authoritarianism. Hence the term: “tankie”.
(I only remember that one issue where dessalines completely failed to understand why a user would want to block an instance).
Oh he knows why, because he IS why. He wants to pretend he doesn’t because he knows people will use it to block the instances that force the politics he enjoys. Nobody is fucking trying to escape star trek lol, it’s him and his ilk and he knows it, and since their goal is evangelism (they have to save our souls with authoritarian dictatorships!) he doesn’t want the evangelism machine shut down.
Fascism is quite capable at achieving its goals - seeing as how it is not limited by any of that pesky “morality” that slows others down.
It seems really hard for some people to turn down free stuff: If Dessalines is receiving money from the Chinese or other fascist government to develop the Lemmy sourcecode, even if only partially funding the project alongside other funding from e.g. the EU, then I can well understand why he would want to see them kept happy - on top of what he may feel personally. And then in turn people on the Fediverse seem only too happy to accept that free software, rather than make an alternative (Mbin being in its infancy still).
That said, a lot has changed in the last year (I wasn’t on Lemmy then, though I was on Kbin.social) even as a lot remains the same. For one, I am told that this is the first time that Dessalines has been caught red-handed manipulating the database mod logs - it is one thing to hold authoritarian viewpoints, another to do mass-removals of lets be honest people who are quite often rude & condescending & it at least makes sense to some that they might deserve it (“first they came for…”), but it is a whole other matter entirely to cover up the latter fact later. Your counter here should be “is it though, really?”, which would be an excellent point, except again I refer to the earlier point that people like free stuff, and also it’s just easier to go along with the flow…
But the other big change should give us some hope: there are now more communities than there were, back then. Free moderation done by people on Lemmy.ml might not transfer over if the community were to move elsewhere, hence lemmy.ml held the Fediverse hostage by holding those communities, and yet that means less now than it used to. See for instance the discussion at https://sh.itjust.works/post/20461175, and in particular the instance admin imaqtpie’s response, summed up as “the complaints are not without substance… However I think the idea of defederation is a huge overreaction…” It goes on with outright praise to remaining - “That [defederation] seems really lame and somehow duplicitous… I can confidently say that I don’t feel like lemmy.ml users have been disproportionately involved in bad behavior or trolling… I haven’t seen them brigading communities or threads, aside from the ones located on their own server, which is obviously fine. TLDR Lemmy.ml is basically alright with me, aside from some minor annoyances. I think it’s kinda embarrassing to talk about defederating them when none of us would be here without them.” In short, if a user on that instance were to accidentally walk into chapotraphouse (hexbear.net is also not defederated on that instance) and say something that would anger the trolls and get you brigaded (from their discord server), then that’s not the problem of the instance admin of sh.itjust.works to protect their users from such a mistake. I have not yet seen similar discussions on other instances e.g. Lemmy.World but feel free to point me to them if you are aware of any.
And too, we do now have the ability to block individual instances on our own… which isn’t nothing. Except (a) it doesn’t work, b/c their comments still show up, and their votes are still applied to us (which furthermore, especially if part of a brigade campaign, can affect whether people even see a post at all or not, if you can work in more downvotes than upvotes early on and thereby prevent it from appearing on Hot and from there go viral - it’s yet another important tool in the fascist toolbox to control the conversation, except they really really would like it very much please and thank you if you would just pretend that you did not know that this even exists… - hence not adding the capability to reveal who is doing the downvoting to the codebase!?), and (b) the most vulnerable among us, the new users, won’t know any of this, and so will most easily fall into the trap (this one too, fascists would please just like it very much if you would go along with pretending that it does not happen, ever). With the ability to block hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, I got cocky and started recommending Lemmy to people that I know irl, however upon thinking it over in greater depth, I am afraid to do that anymore. It is like Linux - if I set it up for them or walk them through it that is one thing, but to just say “you should use [Arch?:-P] linux btw”, that is quite insensitive to their needs, knowing full well how much pain is in their short-term future as they struggle to come to terms with this very large & exceedingly complex structure.
Why not make it easier on new users, by preemptively defederating from
Nazifascist instances?!? I dunno, you tell me…In the meantime, I am impressed to see people working to overcome the existing obstacles, so that even if not now or in the next few months, perhaps one day we can get there, e.g. https://reddthat.com/post/20197120.
If Dessalines is receiving money from the Chinese or other fascist government to develop the Lemmy sourcecode, even if only partially funding the project alongside other funding from e.g. the EU, then I can well understand why he would want to see them kept happy - on top of what he may feel personally.
You people are so lost up your own asses, you will never find yourselves. Conspiratorial nonsense driven by your McCarthyism 2.0 with a complete lack of self awareness.
But I guess I shouldn’t expect anything more from a NATO funded user and instance, right? The Heritage Foundation and CIA signing the checks over here?
Very worrying indeed.
If Dessalines is receiving money from the Chinese or other fascist government to develop the Lemmy sourcecode
What kind of moldy McCarthyite garbage is this? If my Grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
If my Grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You need to take a step back. You can’t see the forest for the trees. Our strength is in our diversity.
Hexbear defederated from us as we were discussing whether to vote on defederating them, which was a foregone conclusion. Our users can’t walk into their communities, because they are scared that we might poke a hole in their bubble. Perhaps these boogeymen that you envision are less interested in taking over the world, and more interested in simply having their own space on the internet.
In short, if a user on that instance were to accidentally walk into chapotraphouse (hexbear.net is also not defederated on that instance) and say something that would anger the trolls and get you brigaded (from their discord server), then that’s not the problem of the instance admin of sh.itjust.works to protect their users from such a mistake.
It’s not nice to put words in someone else’s mouth. I will always protect my users against being brigaded. Hence why we were about to defederate hexbear before they beat us to the punch. But we aren’t being brigaded by lemmy.ml.
You actually believe Dessalines is taking money from the Chinese government? Come on dude, that’s absurd. Occam’s razor: he just doesn’t like when people say shit he doesn’t agree with, and petulantly bans them. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just an internet moderation saga that has played out a million times before.
Just going to address your first paragraph: I sincerely doubt that the devs are receiving money from a fascist government. I simply don’t think Lemmy is big enough yet to be on the radar of e.g., the Chinese government. Yes, maybe there are some Wumaos on here. My understanding is they get better training and autonomy these days, so it’s certainly possible. But most of the comments look more homegrown. I just doubt the Chinese government (or any similar government) would care to the point of trying to pay off devs, and it’s not their MO anyways.
Someone mentioned that a grant may have come from the Chinese government, but I really know nothing about any of that.
With the ability to block hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, I got cocky and started recommending Lemmy to people that I know irl, however upon thinking it over in greater depth, I am afraid to do that anymore.
I don’t even admit to anyone that I use Lemmy, too much political extremism and propaganda.
Within a couple weeks of signing up for Lemmy I was told I’d “get the wall”, and had to abandon an account because Lemmy.ml users followed me around and downvoted everything I posted (mostly funny memes).
But after I blocked hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml, I started to forget that all of that was even there, though I internally made a kind of automatic mental block for Lemmy.ml too (like WHAT!? oh nvm it’s from them…). I shouldn’t forget though, that that is what a new user would see… thus it would be quite unfriendly for me to bring fresh meat to the fascist audience for their amusement.
Listening to instance admins, I just don’t know why they refuse to see those campaigns of brigading as you described happened to you (can you prove it btw, like if the account still exists, and you find a way to view downvotes - does Mbin let you? I tried but maybe it needs a login to do that and it appears greyed out to me without one…), and they say things like “they don’t affect our users” (bullshit, you just perfectly described a situation that I suspect happens all the time where it does), and basically act like bullying and intimidation is not a thing that exists in the world. Like, if you ever say anything to anger someone on lemmy.ml, then that’s your fault and you deserve whatever comes your way after that!?
Tbf, there are instances - e.g. reddthat.com - that disable downvotes entirely. But I don’t want to simply become insensitive to everyone else’s disapproval around me - rather I want the system to work properly so that I am only getting disapproval from people who I either respect or at least are neutral, i.e. not fascists who abuse the system bc they are allowed to by inattentive admins.
If there was an instance somewhere that had defederated from the Big 3 Axis powers - hexbear.net, lemmygrad.ml, and lemmy.ml - I would likely join it, and promote it, and recommend Lemmy to people irl again. Otherwise, I will either leave the Fediverse if it gets too bad, or far more likely simply block lemmy.ml but then only enjoy the Fediverse privately rather than as something I am allowed to share bc of how poor and off-putting the initial user experience is.:-(
It is extremely sad how heavily this aspect hinders our continued growth - even if Reddit does something annoying like finally kills off old-reddit for good this time, are people really going to want to come here, so that instead of being exposed to the right-wing propaganda over there, they can be exposed to the fascism-disguised-as-leftism over here? Fascists are controlling everything, everywhere!?!? But we were supposed to be different, here. At least that’s what we told ourselves.
Agreed. But to be fair, there’s never been a forum like the fediverse before. People are still learning how to navigate this complex, multifaceted space. It’s not just one audience, it’s many different ones.
Thanks!
Lemmy.ml is developed and admined by tankies. Recent allegations are that someone is censoring accounts that have previously made posts critical of China by moderating them across various magazines
I mentioned elsewhere but here’s a copy and paste:
It is far more than just that. Removing comments is one thing, mass-banning from many communities at once despite never even having commented in them at all is another, but the real issue is using database manipulation to delete the log entries as to why the comments were removed after the fact.
Even if unintentional, which strains credulity, this is some spez-level stuff going on, where we have the option to either take what a single person (who does not seem inclined to follow their own stated rules) offers, or else we can leave. Many are choosing the latter, and like the Rexodus, making the situation known to others as well in the process.
“Criticizing China” was merely the spark that lit the match, with the situation offering proof of what apparently people have been suspecting for some time now.
This weeks drama.
Interesting list
For another thread on this topic: https://lemmy.world/post/16235541
About !privacyguides@lemmy.one, I posted on !meta@lemmy.one: https://lemmy.world/post/16273266, the instance and community might be a bit abandoned.
For comics, isn’t !comicstrips@lemmy.world an option?
privacyguides does seem to have a decent number of active users, comicstrips seems to be more specialised than comics.
privacyguides does seem to have a decent number of active users,
I agree, that’s what I mentioned in that thread. But still, we might want to see if the instance is still managed, or if it will go bust like lemmy.film or iusearch.fyi
!comicstrips@lemmy.world content is very similar to !comics@lemmy.ml.
The more specific one is !comicbooks@lemmy.world
Sounds reasonable, edited a bit.
Nice, thanks!
Is it possible to migrate my account to another Lemmy instance? Or would I have to start over?
You can migrate your subscriptions in the settings (import / export as a JSON file, easier to do on a computer).
You would lose your comments and posts history, but you can refer to the old account on your new account so that people curious would know it’s you. Also, if you keep the same name and avatar, most of the people wouldn’t notice.
- JOIN US! Comicbooks is slow, I’d like it to grow so I can discuss less popular creator owned comics, at the moment it’s mostly some news posts, my list posts, some super hero discussion, and some dude who thinks internet comic strips are “comic books” (but nobody has corrected them because they seem nice enough lol).
some dude who thinks internet comic strips are “comic books
Is that me? Ha ha
Naw lol the one you posted is at least a nightwing/starfire thing, it’s related. But you’re cool too!
I meant whoever posted the one about the comet passing earth a little while back haha.
You’ve never seen superfans print out and bind a webnovel, huh 😛
Lol technically correct, the best kind of correct!
Naw for real though I just think personally that stuff belongs in comicstrips or one of the more apt communities for it, and comicbooks is specifically for Comic Books proper (not just Marvel/DC but also Image, IDW, DSTLRY, Massive, etc, the more creator owned and independent side.) I think this because quite frankly “Comic Books proper” doesn’t really fit in those communities dedicated to strips, and I’d like a space for it specifically when I’m looking for that stuff specifically. My opinions on the matter are far from “the rules” though, it is certainly allowed to post them.
This is also not to say I don’t like strips, I do very much and am in most of those communities as well! It really just boils down to organization for me lol, may be slightly OCD.
Also, did you check !fedigrow@lemm.ee ? As a regular poster, that might interest you
Just subscribed!
Nice! There is this post about being the only one posting to a community that might interest you: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/19187513 (and if you want the full version with 90 comments: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/11491827)
Thanks I’ll check it out! But also I’m not the only poster there, there’s you, Jordan, and a few others too! It’s a small community but it is a community haha. I’d like to see it grow but I’m also thankful for you guys who are already there!
Indeed!
Please dont use lemmy.world alternatives. World is a much bigger problem in terms of centralization.
Are you on !fedigrow@lemm.ee? That’s a topic we discuss quite often there
I didnt know about it. Thanks for mentioning. Subscribed.
Nice, unfortunately you don’t have the comments on your instance but here’s an example thread about LW centralization:
I will probably get the comments at some point. Its a matter of federation I guess. Thanks for the resource. Will check.
I don’t care how big .world gets because it’s the same thing with mastodon.social or pixelfed.social. Coming from primarily centralized services, people will always be looking for a “main” instance because that’s what their brains are used to and that’s what will help adoption. The ones who care will use another instance. As long as fedi has the users and not the proprietary alternatives, it’s fine. We can manage.
You’re partially right, but it would be better if users were evenly spread on many instances.
Imagine if one instance becomes so big and then they de-federate. For normal users, nothing would change, but then we would have created the new R*ddit
!anime@ani.social for Anime community
We getting one of these a day now?
If you don’t like it, petition your admins (via posts on your own instance) to defed.
If they don’t want to, find a new instance that does, or stay and block their instance so you don’t see their subs.
If you want to build up alternatives, post and comment so they’re more active.
I just don’t see the point of these posts when most Lemmy users have been around for a while and know what lemmy.ml is like by now.
Be the change you want to see, post in those communities yourself instead of these daily announcements threads on an instance that’s already defederating apparently
Lemm.ee will not defederate over tankie mods, there’s a specific policy. As to the change I want to see: Guess what I did just before I posted the list, go through all my subscription and clean it of lemmy.ml.
I very much doubt there’s going to be one a day, these kinds of things tend to ebb and flow. Also it would’ve been much faster to ignore this thread than to reply.
Ok?
So if you disagree with their policy enough, you can change instances.
Or you can stay, and build up those alternative communities instead of asking people to do it for you.
Like, the logic behind this isn’t difficult, and I thought you’d be able to grasp it.
That’s why I bothered to reply, instead of just blocking you. Same chance I gave some of the lemmy.ml subs before blocking their instance.
You’re handling it about as well
Not everyone wants to block the clowns. I enjoy the show.
Oh it’s givesomefucks, the other clown!
I don’t disagree with lemm.ee’s policy.
So if you disagree with their policy enough, you can change instances.
You can move your home instance where you log in? Explain how. That was going to be one of things I suggest you could do in future updates.
Not that I would move right now. I’m happy on Lemmy.World but I’d like the option.
But…why? Whats the advantage of reddthat over lemmy.world?
Also, when I saw Homer I thought it was going to be him saying “Oooooooooo!!! Explain how!”
Which nobody seems to have gotten my reference…the other guy even got offended.
You can move your home instance where you log in? Explain how.
I mean. Since you asked so politely…
You can export your settings in a .json file, then create a new account on a new instance an import your settings.
But like, you need to try and be better when you’re asking people for help.
these daily announcements threads on an instance that’s already defederating apparently
Where has LW announced that they would be defederating?
If you want to build up alternatives, post and comment so they’re more active.
Which is what they are trying to achieve by promoting those communities in this post?
Where has LW announced that they would be defederating?
People kept saying it one of the recent daily threads people have been making.
Which is what they are trying to achieve by promoting those communities in this post?
You think posting repetitively here is the same as:
If you want to build up alternatives, post and comment so they’re more active.
How does that make sense?
But if you want to move discussion off their communities make posts in those alternatives. That would actually do something.
These posts are Susan G Kommen levels of difference making…
You should read the sidebar’s at least, they’re heavily biased, but upfront about it.
It’s been their safe space longer than most other instances have been around. It’s also a good idea to look at modlogs when coming across a new sub/instance.
Not everything shows up there though. Like if someone is banned and has all their content removed, it won’t all show up in the log. But when individual comments are removed, it’ll show you what was said.
Don’t just assume everyone online will be upfront about their biases
You should read the sidebar’s at least
Ain’t nobody got time for that!
I see the same article posted about 15 times for three days, maybe that’s the same thing going on here.
Feel free to be the change you want to see. You are telling OP to stfu about their issues and simply move on rather than complain, yet you seem to be doing the opposite of that yourself, hrm…
If you meant something otherwise, it was not explained well imho.
The world news community on .ml is just Russian and Chinese propoganda.
And .world is liberal amerikkkan bs then?
(not saying that either one is right btw)
Clearly the American point of view is neutral, the default, and the truth, so it doesn’t count as propaganda.
Why are you being downvoted? Is it not obvious enough that your comment was sarcasm?
I had to do a double take because this sentiment is prevalent throughout lemmy.world and other instances.
mbmb forgot the USA is the universal truth in nation-state form at the centre of the known universe/“international community” lmao
It’s not even about which view is right or neutral. On .world posts and comments critical of the US aren’t mass censored like .ml does with posts critical of China, Russia or the former USSR.
That’s true to some extent. I don’t agree with hard censorship like that, but there is also the risk of getting astroturfed and brigaded like reddit, which had a clear example as far back as 2013 where Eglin Air Force Base, FL showed up as “most addicted city”. The goal of censorship is to give your own opinions more space, so I’m not exactly upset if other instances are moderated in a different way when there are plenty of other instances moderated in a different way. The fediverse offers plenty of space.
