I’m not from the US, so I’m curious why Americans still wants him back. I always see him as a bad mouthed guy and was worse when he lost in 2020. But feel free to change my mind. This question is also for non-trump supporters who can think of one thing (if you can) on why he’s good for the top position.

    • SavvyWolf@pawb.social
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      2 months ago

      I’ve not been following the Ukrainian war recently, but wouldn’t the US surrendering Ukraine result in the erasure and eradication of Ukrainian culture. Which would likely result in more deaths than the war itself?

      • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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        2 months ago

        but wouldn’t the US surrendering Ukraine result in the erasure and eradication of Ukrainian culture.

        Why would it? Trump did not promise to “surrender Ukraine”, he promised to force both sides to negotiate and end the war. I don’t think those negotiations would include whole Ukraine becoming Russia, do you think so? Most likely scenario is that the current front lines become the new borders, and most of the lost territories (Lugansk, Doneck, Crimea) don’t really have " Ukrainian culture" they are mostly Russian speaking. It’s a little bit different with Kherson and Zaporizhzhya but they still don’t have nearly as much “Ukrainian culture” as western Ukraine.

        • SavvyWolf@pawb.social
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          2 months ago

          The US doesn’t have the ability and/or willingness to force Russia to comply with any of their demands. Therefore any deal has to be in agreement with the Russian state, which means their war demands. That means either the US pulls military support and Ukraine are unable to fight back, or the talks go nowhere and nothing really changes. There is no motivation for Russia to accept the current front lines.

          … Although, like I said, my knowledge of this conflict is a little spotty - someone in the audience let me know if my read of the situation is correct.

          • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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            2 months ago

            There is no motivation for Russia to accept the current front lines.

            I don’t think this is correct…
            We now know the details of the peace talks (from Ukrainian sources!) that started right at the beginning of the war, where Russia was ready to retreat to pre-war (so 2022) borders.
            So I’m actually reasonably sure that Russia would absolutely accept the current front-lines.
            The only reason there is no peace talks happening, is because Zelensky’s demands are absolutely clownish (seriously, I don’t know a better word here) - “give us back all the territories you captured, including Crimea, and then we will be ready to talk”.

      • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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        2 months ago

        I didn’t bring it into the discussion, but sure, let’s talk about it :)

        What is your opinion on Azov brigade? Are those guys cool and not nazis? What about Ukrainian government (and Zelensky in particular) endorsing them (by publicly posting photos with them for example, etc.)?

        What is your opinion on Stepan Bandera, that cool guy and totally not nazi who fought for Ukrainian independence, and who is being glorified in Ukraine and after whom streets are renamed?

        Those two are just the most famous examples :)

      • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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        2 months ago

        Well, you are right, there is no reason to believe him or any other politician.
        But dems openly say that they will continue the war, and Trump at least promises to end it. So you know, with Trump there is at least a chance for peace, while with whatever Dem candidate there will be - the chance is zero.

    • dan1101@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      I guarantee you it will be another one of those deals where Ukraine gives up their land to Russia, and those deals are pointless because Ukraine won’t accept them.

      • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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        2 months ago

        What do you mean Ukraine won’t accept them?
        Trump’s promise was to

        • Tell Putin that if he refuses to negotiate they will send much more weapons to Ukraine (isn’t that what you want btw?).
        • Tell Zelensky that if he refuses to negotiate they will stop all weapon supplies.

        If there won’t be weapon supplies, Zelensky will finally be forced to accept peace. Additionally he will lose his only reason for staying in power, and there will finally be elections in Ukraine.

        • baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          Trump’s promise

          If you believe anything that shitbird says, everything else you think or say is automatically invalidated.

          • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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            2 months ago

            Well, first of all no - it’s a fallacy and doesn’t work like that ;)

            Secondly, if there are two parties, and you distrust both, but first party has been supporting war for two years and says that they will continue to do so, and the second party says they will stop it - how is it not the logical choice to support the second party (assuming you are actually affected by the war and so want it to end)?

            • baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              And like I said, that guy lies nonstop. If you believe anything he says, you’re the sucker. It doesn’t matter if he says he will stop a war, or give everyone a million bucks, or turn straw into gold. The guy is a conman and a liar, and you seem to be falling for it. There’s nothing else to say here, you’re either a troll or a fool, or both. I say good day.

              • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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                2 months ago

                You seem to have trouble understanding my question :(

                Let me rephrase it in that case - whom should I support if I want war to end?
                It’s definitely not Dems though, as they will continue the war just like they were doing this whole time.

                In case you are not willing to answer it, good day to you as well :)

                • baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 months ago

                  The answer is neither of them probably, though I think Kamala has a chance of ending it. She’s less hawkish and further left than Biden. Trump only serves himself and his rich buddies, who happen to own defense and oil companies. So there is no way he would end the war.

                  But I also think you’re not asking this question in good faith. So yeah I guess we’re done here.

    • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      It is not possible for a conservative to enter a discussion in good faith. Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. Every word.

      • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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        2 months ago

        It is not possible for a liberal to enter a discussion in good faith. Every word uttered by a liberal is deception or manipulation. Every word.

        See? I can do it as well :)
        Now, do you have an actual point/argument that makes sense?

        • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Your post history is consistent evidence of my claim. Every comment you’ve made on Lemmy has been deceptive and manipulative on its face or in its substance.

          The time for negotiating with conservatives ended over a decade ago. The time for curing the social cancer of conservatism is at hand. There is no such thing as a “good conservative” alive today.

          • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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            2 months ago

            Your post history is consistent evidence of my claim. Every comment you’ve made on Lemmy has been deceptive and manipulative on its face or in its substance.

            Here we go again…
            Every time somebody says this, I ask for just one example. And never receive it (because I neither manipulate nor deceive anyone :).
            So, any examples? :)

            There is no such thing as a “good conservative” alive today.

            Well yeah, you definitely seem like a good guy

            • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              What part of “every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation” are you having difficulty deciphering? Every comment you’ve made here is an example.

              Let’s use your above comment as an example.

              Every time somebody says this, I ask for just one example.

              This is not a true statement on its face.

              And never receive it

              Most replies to your “innocent inquiries” provide evidence of your deception as you reply with moved goal-posts.

              because I neither manipulate not deceive anyone (sic)

              This claim is an absurd falsehood that is evident to every rational human who reads your comment history.

              As you can see, “debating” with a conservative is a waste of time as the conservative is not able to enter any discussion with honesty or in good faith.

              • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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                2 months ago

                Holy shit, you wrote such long comment, and it still doesn’t prove a single manipulation/deceptio n/lie from me XD

                This is not a true statement on its face.

                Let me give you a tip, since you seem to struggle argumenting: if you want to prove it - the easiest way is to provide a counter-example ;)

                Most replies to your “innocent inquiries” provide evidence of your deception as you reply with moved goal-posts.

                Well, again - provide a single example of that :)

                This claim is an absurd falsehood that is evident to every rational human who reads your comment history.

                And again, a fallacy without an actual argument.

                • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  It is a common conservative tactic of deception to claim evidence is not evidence. This has been a standard go-to tactic for conservatives throughout history.

                  That approach does not work on Lemmy the way it works on other platforms you may be more familiar with (e.g. Truth Social, Stormfront, Rumble). Not acknowledging evidence as its presented to you is not going to result in a normal person being fooled here. Using a condescending tone is also not going to work.

                  The more you writhe, slither and whine, the more I enjoy playing with my food. Ok, your turn.

                  • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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                    2 months ago

                    Well, considering you cannot provide any evidence/proofs to anything you’re saying, I guess there is nothing more to talk with you about :(

                    That’s a shame