• Avanera@sh.itjust.works
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    23 days ago

    I was raised in a left-leaning, progressive, atheist, LGBTQ+/minority-accepting household, but one surrounded by a white, largely conservative exurban community. I was raised to be inclusive of others, to be thoughtful, to be curious, to be polite and empathetic. I had good* parents who supported me, and taught me to treat others well.

    In the middle of fifth grade, I transferred to a magnet program focusing on STEM concepts. It took me from a school that was almost entirely white, to a school which was very much multi-racial. I was really small for my age, nerdy, and the new kid. I’d always been bullied at school, but after the transfer it got a lot worse, and got pretty severely physical. A lot of the people who harassed me the worst were black. I honestly never understood the social circles enough to know what their deal was, and it certainly wasn’t only a race thing, but the fact that many of my tormentors were black wasn’t lost on me, to be sure.

    When I was 11 or so, I used all the savings from a lifetime of cumulative birthdays, Christmas gifts, etc. to buy a laptop to play games on. Pretty quickly, gaming became all I did. It was an escape, and I enjoyed it. I played whatever F2P games I could. Diablo clones, random MMOs, shitty pay-to-win FPS games, whatever. My parents didn’t supervise my activities very closely, and to be blunt, I quickly became way more savvy than them about subverting any surveillance they tried to put in place anyways.

    Eventually I started looking into hacks for games. I found a really large forum (think 25k members) for sharing game hacks, and joined up. By the time I was maybe 13-14 or so, I was one of the highest-ranking moderators on the forum. I hung out in their IRC server (which definitely isn’t the internet chat-rooms you’re supposed to be careful about, those are different) all day, dabbled in making my own (occasionally illicit) software and hacks, and was firmly in the community. These weren’t good people, but I didn’t know that. When I got home from school and got online, they asked me how my day was. They cared about me, they played games with me, they were my friends. I remember I was gone for like 2 weeks when I was seriously ill, and one of them tracked me down and called my house to check in on me. I didn’t think anything of it, because of course they could do that. I’d been in a Skype call with one of them who was screen sharing the array of webcams they had access to through their botnet. I didn’t realize at the time that they were probably blackmailing people, or holding their data ransom. We just hacked in video games, none of that actually serious stuff. The malware I was toying with was just because I was interested in it, and of course, my friends must have been too, right? Just a learning exercise. I figured I might try to go into cybersecurity when I started high school and could actually start taking courses in computer topics. Programming was SO fucking interesting!

    My parents didn’t know what was going on. They should have. I was barely a teenager, I can’t possibly have been hiding my tracks all that well. But then, their marriage had started to fall apart, and things were bad a home. I didn’t know anything about that then, I was in my room gaming and running communities for terrible people. The headset kept their fighting far away from me. My parents didn’t know who I was hanging out with. They had raised me well, but now they weren’t doing what they should have been. So when my friends shared hateful content with me, “interesting” videos they’d found about how terrible women were, how violent minorities were, who was I to question it? They were speaking as those with knowledge. They taught me stuff, they knew better than me. And besides, I’d been physically harassed by black people before. I’d seen it for myself, right? My U.S. history teacher was REALLY smart, and she told us (in a MN classroom) that the civil war wasn’t actually about slavery either! That was super interesting to learn! And the women they complained about weren’t me. Just because a lot of the guys I hung out with had bitches for girlfriends didn’t mean they hated women, it was just bad luck with shitty women. Right?

    I was a good person. I mean, I was a weird socially outcast nerd, but I wasn’t a bad person. My family was still caring. Still accepting. My Mom’s apartment was always a refuge for any of our friends, even (and especially) the queer ones who had been kicked out by their own terrible parents. They had a place to come and be safe and be themselves with us. So I was a good person too, right? Good people, smart people, they keep their online lives separate from their personal lives. They don’t talk about their online activities with others, and they don’t talk about their personal information with internet strangers in chatrooms. The only people I talked with were my FRIENDS. I ran their Minecraft servers. I discussed the Jordan Peterson videos they shared. He sounds so fucking smart after all. I hardly understand what he’s talking about, but I’m sure one day I will. And the parts I don’t understand, other people can explain to me. I laughed at their racist memes. After all, it’s just a joke. And of course, overt bigotry got stomped on. I was in charge, and I was a good person. I wouldn’t tolerate that sort of thing. But a dog-whistle is just a tool for training a pet, and we’d only ever kept cats.

    I eventually joined a different gaming group on the side. We played Jailbreak in CS:S. I got really good at it. Really into it. And I stopped hanging out as much with my older friends. I still kept in touch, but I’d found a new hobby. These people weren’t good people either, but I mean, the fact that they liked my voice on mic wasn’t that they were creeping on a 15 year old who they wanted to fuck, it was because I had gotten a new microphone a few weeks ago and must have sounded good on it. I had gotten lucky though. These people weren’t great people, but they weren’t nearly as bad. They weren’t literally cybercriminals, just asshole kids on the internet. So when I became a moderator in THAT community and started running things, the community actually improved. But eventually that community collapsed, and I moved on again. And again. And again. I ended up with some Brits for a while, and “mate” settled itself into my vocabulary in a deeply unwelcome way.

    I’ve been incredibly lucky. I’m 28 now. The last 14 years of my life, I’ve slowly climbed from one community to another, and mostly through random luck each of those have been better than the one I was leaving. I am surrounded now by some of my favorite people. They are TRULY good people. They care about others, and stand up for good causes. Some days, I even think maybe I might be a good person too. I wasn’t a good person. I fell WAY down the alt-right rabbit hole. I’m sure that I’ve hurt people, and I’ve made countless decisions that sicken me now. But I’ve been incredibly lucky. If I hadn’t been, I have no idea where I’d be now. Or what nonsense I’d still be believing, because everything around me told me it was normal.

    • Godric@lemmy.world
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      23 days ago

      You know how they say “Show, not tell” when writing? Excellent job mate, thanks for it

    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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      22 days ago

      Genuinely, thanks for sharing your experience. I don’t think most people realize how insidiously easy it is to slowly slide down that path. I’m very glad to hear that you’re moving in a better direction these days.

      Great writing style too, for what it’s worth.

    • SeedyOne@lemm.ee
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      22 days ago

      This is a fantastic read and a great explanation of how this can happen. You’ve come a long way and made it out the other side.

  • VelvetStorm@lemmy.world
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    23 days ago

    Ok, so this is my time to admit my very shameful past. I used to be racist, homophobic, and sexist(known as the big 3). I used my religion as an excuse for the sexism and homophobia and my father(my mom isnt racist and they are divorced) and dam near everyone on his side of the family is racist so I just grew up in that culture. Once I stopped talking to him and met a lot of people from other races, i learned we are all the same. Then I stated reading the Bible, and once I did that, I obviously couldn’t continue believing in it. now I am an atheist and I don’t rely on a very very old book to come to my moral conclusions.

    So basically, it’s willful ignorance, and it is always easier to blame others for your own downfalls, and it makes you feel better about your own shitty life if you can hate on someone else.

    Edited for clarification.

      • VelvetStorm@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        I can honestly say looking back idk if I ever really believed in it. I think I was just using it as an excuse to hate people while feeling morally superior.

        • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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          22 days ago

          I think that’s a lot of people in it. Moral superiority feels really good and hating others is a convenient way to avoid dealing with however you feel about yourself

        • Laborer3652@reddthat.com
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          21 days ago

          I definitely did, and thats what made leaving so hard. I trusted the people around me, and they were telling me all kinds of things, so of course it is true. The indoctrination starts before critical thinking develops, so its just built into the firmware of your brain, you know?

    • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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      22 days ago

      I used my religion as an excuse for the sexism and homophobia

      I’m my experience that is extremely common.

    • Trigger2_2000@sh.itjust.works
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      23 days ago

      I’m so glad you were able to see the light and thank you for having the courage to put it out there for others to see.

      The most difficult faults to see and change are our own.

    • Jarix@lemmy.world
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      23 days ago

      Then I stated reading the Bible, and once I did that, I obviously couldn’t continue believing it.

      Yeah nothing obvious about that. Your religion is idiotic, all religions are lies made up by con artists or crazy people. You cant be trusted if you need some book assembled over a 600 year period, edited and abused by religious leaders to control and manipulate the masses into maintaining and increasing their own powerbase, to tell you right from wrong.

      Religion is just the old world version of todays billionaires

      • RubyRhod@lemm.ee
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        23 days ago

        Couldn’t agree more. Fuck a safe space for insane blatherskite.

        “willful ignorance” lol

        Like I don’t wanna beat up on the guy but… fuckin hell.

        • VelvetStorm@lemmy.world
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          23 days ago

          Ya, I was willfully ignorant for a while in my life, and then I started to actually practice critical thinking and developing a sound epistemology. I admitted I was wrong and took steps to change that. So what exactly is there to beat up on me about?

        • Jarix@lemmy.world
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          23 days ago

          Im glad they are a better person than they used to be, but that particular sentence made me laugh out loud

          • VelvetStorm@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            Question: does that sentence lead one to believe that reading the Bible made me think the Bible is against sexism and homophobia or does it lead you to believe that I am no longer religious because I read the bible?

  • squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    23 days ago

    Additionally to what has already been mentioned: People are susceptible to politics that confirm their prejudices. Right-wing political thought is largely based on confirming that whatever prejudices people hold, they are morally good and justified. Thus elevating an in-group above out-groups. That is a powerful lure.

  • Mnemnosyne@sh.itjust.works
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    21 days ago

    Consider this question: how is it that anyone under the age of 40 today has ever smoked?

    By the time they were born, the bad effects of smoking were well understood. By the time they were teenagers, not smoking should have been as obvious as not jumping in front of a train. People already addicted find it difficult to quit, but it in no way explains anyone starting.

    The question is different and yet very similar, because the things you mention wind up in a similar way. Somehow people start in that route even though it should be obvious not to. And these things you mention are much easier to fall into than smoking because parents, family, etc are all pushing it on people. Smokers generally aren’t pushing their kids, nieces and nephews, grandchildren, etc to smoke, and somehow smoking still proliferates to some degree, just consider how much more difficult to avoid it is for those whose families are actively encouraging them to fall into these methods of belief and hate.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      Somehow people start in that route even though it should be obvious not to.

      Nicotine provides a short term mental stimulus that’s great for people who feel exhausted or have trouble staying focused.

      That’s why lots of people start smoking in school and lots of professionals continue smoking well past the point at which the health effects are obvious.

      I know a pulmonologist who smoked until he was in his thirties. Literally “how do you expect me to do my job without this?” was his response when I pressed him on it. Lawyers still smoke like chimneys and for the same reasons

    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      21 days ago

      For me as a non-smoker, but vaper, it’s not as if I “fell” into anything. I actively choose to vape and like it. I quit before and did not like it. I get way more benefits from nicotine than downsides. These are factual benefits.

      It’s a poor analogy for right-wing political beliefs which don’t really work. They do not really lead to the goals they claim.

      • Charzard4261@programming.dev
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        21 days ago

        The guy wasn’t talking about vaping though, but smoking. The one we know for sure gives you a ton of issues and health problems.

        Whilst I agree it’s not a great analogy for right wing beliefs, I’d say it works as a good analogy for incel behaviour. I knew a guy who had fallen into that trap but managed to find his way out. When I asked him about it, he said it helped him cope, that it was easier to believe that it wasn’t his fault things were so shitty.

        I really respect how he was able to realise that the things he and the people around him were saying was bullshit, and it made me realise that a lot of these people are being taken advantage of by “influencers” spewing this harmful rhetoric.

  • angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com
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    22 days ago

    Fascists provide easy (but often fake) answers to hard problems. Loneliness, the fear of replacement, that kind of thing.

  • giltwist@fedia.io
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    23 days ago

    The core of the issue is the “Just World Fallacy” sometimes also called the “Prosperity Doctrine” and a few other things. It boils down to one core idea “Good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people.” Basically, everyone tends to think of themselves as, more-or-less, good people. So when bad things happen, as they inevitably do, these people start going “Huh, more bad stuff is happening to me than I’ve done bad things. WTF?” So, they come to a reasonable if flawed conclusion that “someone ELSE is doing bad things, and I’m collateral damage.” This isn’t entirely wrong, although sometimes bad things do just happen. However, since at least as far back as the Civil War (and probably since time immemorial), the people whose fault it REALLY is (i.e., the people with power and privelege) have pointed at outgroups, commonly immigrants but also slaves or Catholics or trans people, and said “THOSE people are being bad. THOSE people are why you are suffering. Give me more power and I’ll get rid of THOSE people.”

  • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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    22 days ago

    External locus of control.

    Bad things in someone’s life is not their fault, but the fault of whatever scapegoat.

    Can’t get a girlfriend? It’s women’s fault.

    Can’t get a job? It’s illegal immigrants.

    Can’t afford to do the things you like? It’s the government taking too many taxes.

    Whatever problem someone has, they are looking to blame someone rather than make any changes in their own life.

  • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    23 days ago

    There’s a lot of information, there’s also a lot of misinformation. Many people don’t trust authorities, sometimes for understandable reasons, so they end up in the fringes.

    Also, the Nazis, and even the Confederates, weren’t all that long ago in the grand scheme. A couple generations. Many people learn these tendencies from their family.

    Also incels are somewhat different from Nazis/fascists. There’s obviously a lot of overlap. There’s always been men who had trouble with women, but I think being a male virgin after a certain age is enormously more vilified these days than it was in, for instance, the 50s, even among more progressive, left leaning groups. Admittedly, that’s anecdotal so I could be wrong.

    • Em Adespoton@lemmy.ca
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      23 days ago

      Part of it is education and critical thinking. People don’t know what to trust because they don’t know how to test information for truthfulness and can’t reliably fact check. So they depend on an authority figure to tell them what and how to think, with expected results.

      Note this isn’t limited to these people; some people just pick better authority figures than others.

  • ulkesh@lemmy.world
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    22 days ago

    In case it wasn’t a typo, and just to help OP for the future…

    It’s “this day and age,” not “this day in age.”

    I know I’ll probably get downvoted for the pedantry here especially since everyone understands what was meant, but hopefully OP will appreciate the information about the common phrase.

    Also to answer the OP’s question: inferiority complex. It runs rampant in society, especially among men.

  • ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca
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    23 days ago

    Racism and bigotry aren’t logical positions, but emotional ones. People have an emotional need to be part of a group and feel included. If the group a person joins is antagonistic towards other groups then the person will internalize that and become bigoted. The dislike of other groups becomes a part of their identity and belonging.

    The documentary Behind The Curve illustrates this pretty effectively. They follow some flat eathers around and interview them and they all say the same thing. They love being a part of the group. They didn’t have a group before and now they do. Their beliefs keep the group together and they’re not going to get rid of them just because the beliefs can be proven to be wrong.

    The desire to be a part of a group is strong enough that people will believe anything as long as it gets them some friends. There isn’t anything wrong with that unless the beliefs of the group are harmful and hateful.

    • Don_Dickle@lemmy.worldOP
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      23 days ago

      Seriously? So they fill themselves up with this shit and are ok with putting it out there? I will never understand it because I am very very lazy and it kind of seems like hate requires alot of effort.

      • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
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        23 days ago

        Ironically, this kind of hate requires no effort, someone says “GROUP BAD!” and you just sneer and shout towards them. It’s way, way easier to blame a group than understanding all the things that are making your life/city/country/world go wrong

        “Of COURSE the evil jew gay black communist feminist conspiracy is the root of all evil, they hate MY way of life!”

        There’s also the point that most conspiracy theories capitalize on the “this is a secret THEY don’t want you to know!”, so it makes people feel smart (despite them believing in utter bullshit)

        • Don_Dickle@lemmy.worldOP
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          23 days ago

          Well I grew up with cable tv and the only news I got was PBS. And never felt hatred or whatever to a person who is different from me. I may have gotten the shit beatin out of me alot of time in school because of it. But it did not change my views.

  • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.world
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    23 days ago

    This video is actually shockingly relevant right now, and does go through (some of) the ‘hows’ and ‘whys’.

    Remember that tradwife/incel/etc shit is all just fascism boiled down into specifics. The Nazi’s sent women who wouldn’t marry to camps just as easily as Jewish people, gypsies, etc. We think of the Fascist movement as specifically anti-Jewish people, maybe throw in some gay people/etc, but Unionists, Communists, Socialists, and Women were targeted as well.

    The reason it works is because it offers easy answers, and the average person has been made to be so lazy they’ll accept what they’re told, especially if they’re told everyone else is doing it. They aren’t a Nazi, they’re part of the Nazi’s.

    We also have a huge backlog of emotional baggage for men post the 1980’s. At some point we all accepted that men wouldn’t show any emotions except anger, rage, frustration, etc, and then kept doubling down on it. Now you have groups of young men fed directly into a pipeline of Facebook/Youtube/whatever platform that spoon feeds them fascist garbage. Why? Because it makes them tame and easier to control. You notice fascists aren’t out there killing rich people, they’re killing minorities? That’s by design, because the wealthy know they’re fucked if young men turn that rage against them, the real perpetrators of said poor people’s suffering.

    The wealthy love fascism, it gives them everything they want. They don’t see the poor people below them as human, so it’s all just a giant menagerie to them so they can have their Line Go Up Faster than the other rich people.

  • yourgodlucifer@lemmy.world
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    23 days ago

    during gamergate i started going down the alt right rabbithole (at some point i stopped when i realized this was associated with out right nazi shit and re-evaluated my beliefs)

    I was one of those “i am very smart” people as a teenager but I’m actually an idiot I was also a pick me (I am a woman). I found those video clips of feminists everyone was sharing at that time and became convinced that feminist = man hater it can be easy for people to twist fringe beliefs from a group and present that as common among that group. Due to this and me being a lazy idiot who didn’t fact check because I thought I was to smart to be mislead I went further down the rabbithole

    I also blame poor us education on civil rights issues my state (new mexico) is on the bottom of the list for education i think it was around 49th at the time I was in school they presented civil rights issues as if they were solved so i thought “these sjws don’t want equality they want women/minority superiority” I thought they wanted to oppress the previously oppressive groups as revenge not realizing that civil rights issues have not been solved that we haven’t attained equality even though the law was supposedly equal.

    I believed in equality but it got twisted by fascist lies into opposing actual progress and equality.

    I can see how people went further down the rabbit hole one of the things these videos talked about was how the crime rate was higher for black people and that’s why there is more police brutality against black people. I can see how someone could take this information out of context and start thinking that black people were more crime prone inherently and that’s where some of these people took it.

    ignorance is one of the biggest causes of prejudice.

  • jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works
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    23 days ago

    “When dealing with people, remember that you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion. Bristling with prejudices and motivated by pride and vanity.”

    – Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        The title makes it sound like a book on manipulating people, but it’s merely an archaic headline. It’s about the author’s quest to understand people, his frustrations due to the lack of such an “instruction book”, and learning how to become a better person. We might call it psychology or sociology now, but Carnegie visited and wrote many scholars of his time trying to find such knowledge.

        If there’s any book I’d say everyone should read, it’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. Neat thing about it is, as the author says himself, you don’t have to read and parse it front to back to benefit. Pick it up, flip to a random chapter, read. It pays to read over and over again, occasionally reminding ourselves of our common humanity by internalizing the things he learned.

        One quick example; He learned to shut the fuck up and listen. He tells a story about a dinner party he and his wife attended. We get the impression the host was quite the talker, dominating the conversation. Mr. Carnegie sat and listened to the man, hardly speaking at all. At the end of the evening the host went on and on about what a fine orator and clear thinker Carnegie was!

        And if it’s the quote you take issue with, I don’t know how to respond. That’s simply how people are, you and I both.