U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres arrived at the BRICS summit in the Russian city of Kazan on Oct. 22, despite criticism from Ukraine, Voice of America reported.
The BRICS group, a bloc of countries that includes Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Iran, Egypt, Ethiopia, and the United Arab Emirates, is convening in Kazan for a three-day summit from Oct. 22-24. According to Moscow, 36 world leaders are participating in the conference.
Guterres is expected to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the event on Oct. 24, according to Russian presidential aide Yuri Ushakov.
Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry criticized the U.N. secretary general’s visit.
Well innocents die in every war. In the Russia Ukraine war it is clear who is the bad guy. In the middle east it’s not as cut and dry unfortunately. What Israel is doing exceeds any proportionality, but it’s not as if there is no 2 warring sides of bad guys there that have civilians caught in the middle.
The UN is not a “do anything about it” it is a diplomatic forum.
Saying there is two warring sides and its not as clear cut is kind of ignoring the whole “illegal occupation, annexation and ethnic cleansing.”
Imagine Russia hadnt invaded again after annexing Crimea and in 2030 Ukraine started to fight to get it back. Would that make it “not cut and dry” because the rest of the world ignored and normalized around the annexation? Ukraine has a right to kick out Russian occupation from every last squaremeter of occupied territory… Palestinians have a right to kick out Israeli occupation from every last squaremeter of occupied territory.
Yeah, we disagree on the whole illegal occupation part when it comes to Israel proper. And this in turn leads to disagreement about a lot of the other aspects.
Everything in life has to do with priorities and where you put them and when it comes to the founding of Israel we disagree.
Gaza is illegaly occupied. The Westbank is illegally occupied and partly annexed. East Jerusalem is illegally occupied and partly annexed. This is not by my opinion, but by the ICJ
The people have a right to resist against that. And if the source of the occupation is in “Israel proper” (i presume 1967 borders) then it is legitimate to attack military targets there too. For instance it is impossible to remove the occupation of Gaza through the total border control on the side of Israel without attacking on soil of 1967 Israel.
Or would you say that Ukraine fighting in Kurst Oblast is to be condenmmed too?
There is many similarities between Ukraine and Palestine, except in the way Western leaders and Media talk about it and which side they support.
Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Why do they have the right to keep rocket shelling Israël?
Gaza occupation had ended, settlers where removed, Israel closed it off as gazans have no right to enter Israël, if Israël don’t want them too. Egypt had the border closed too, I guess the people in Gaza are not ones you let into your country.
West bank I have nothing to add, the whole settler stuff is criminal and Israel needs to do to the Jewish settlers there what they did with Gaza settlers, convoy them out back into Israël proper and wall of the border.
The issue is landlocked countries need to play nice with their neighbors and Palestinians have no friends on their borders. Neither Jordan not Syria want open borders with them, cause of the whole attempted coup by the PLO, sectarian “differences” and terrorism.
The fact that terrorist organisations like Hezbollah, Hamas and the PLO are so intertwined with civilian life in the Palestinian territory is an issue… for the Palestinians as it makes everyone in the organisation a valid target.
Edit: Jerusalem should be split off and given a status similar to the Vatican and governed by representatives from both sides imo.
No it hasn’t
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240719-adv-01-00-en.pdf
Because Israel attacked them and has repeatedly escalated the conflict over the past 12 months.
Gaza was described as the largest open air prison by experts around the world.
That’s an incredibly disgusting generalization to say regarding an oppressed population. These people are being isolated and oppressedfrom the world due to their much more powerful and well-funded neighbors and you’re just sitting there saying “Yeah they’re not the kind of people I would want to let in”.
Hamas was funded and propped up thanks in large part to Israel.
Hezbollah started as a direct result of Israeli aggression in the 80s and 90s. Israel occupied the south of Lebanon throughout the 90s and Hezbollah harassed them so much they were forced to leave. This conflict is Israel’s second chance on this whole settlement project.
So why don’t Jordan and Egypt have open borders with Gaza and the west bank then? What’s the deal there? Why have the Palestinians never been a sorbed I to the populations of the other regions countries, like the Jews kicked out of these countries where in Israël?
And about not letting Palestinians in… this is not me saying it, it’s what the other Arab countries are actively doing… while saying they care for the faith of their brethren.
And yeah, Hezbollah and Israel have been shooting at each other for decades. Fascist state government vs antisemitic terrorist organisations.
Israël is filled with people that left where they lived be cause of either anti semitism or the pull to the settler colonial project. An easy solution there is not.
Why do Palestinians have to leave for Jordan and Egypt and why are Jordan ang Egypt expected to take them? Israel could just let them live in their homes like any decent person would expect.
Anti-Semitism because of Israel’s actions. If you’re a state known for killing and displacing Arabs, you don’t expect Arab’s to be nice to you. Israel has dragged Jewish reputation through the mud through their actions.
There literally is. Stop killing and displacing Arabs. It’s not that hard.
They don’t have to leave perse… but they could use these borders to trade and travel… but these borders are also shut… for the good of the Palestinians or something…
And yeah, leave them in the west bank and Gaza.
Antisemitism because of Israel… some yeah, most “just because”… Bit silly to ascribe it all to that.
And hating Jews because the israeli government you associate them with, is doing wrong shit, leads to more violence…maybe even Jews that take their stuff and move to Israel. These will not be the most open minded well adjusted people.
And yes they should stop killing people. But how do we make the peace structural and not just a reprieve until the next flare up.
Does not take away that it is immensely horrifying for every innocent person. For all three (even four); All innocent Palestinians, Israeli’s, Ukrainians and Russians who do not want to go to war. Most just want to live their lives peacefully.
And so it is with the Israel-Palestine war. No offense but have you read the history? 1948-2024. Hamas only exists because of Israel’s action from 1948 to 1987. It is clear who started it and it is clear who are the bad guys. In this case, Israel started it, Israel are the main bad guys and then Hamas. There’s a whole argument regard Hamas being The Resistance but that’s for another time.
My point is, the UN is quite much a joke at this point. They cannot do anything while Israel has violated every international law. Diplomatic or not, they haven’t done much and I do not expect much from the UN anymore.
EDIT: Had to do some edits because formatting went bad.
The UN is not to do anything. The UN exists solely as a forum where countries always have a place for dialogue, no matter how high the temperature. It also gives a voice to all countries in conversations. It is an attempt to avoid nuclear war, not a world government. It has no power other than a voice through which countries can speak who agree with one another. If countries want to band together and do something they can, but the UN cannot. It can only give credence to actions taken by Member countries if enough other countries support it…
Not entirely true. The UN is here and can do;
I find it quite ironic that you only pin-point the comment about, the UN. But left out everything else about Ukraine/Russia and Israel/Palestine.
To continue on your comment, on another Lemmy-user;
It has been said by the UN that it is indeed illegal occupation
Disagreement or not - UN has said it is an illegal occupation and that Israel should end it. Not only that, stealing land, murdering thousands of people, rape, illegal settlements and most of their political statements (such as; ‘‘nuke Gaza’’ and ‘‘Palestinians are animals’’). All indicate and prove this statement.
This just shows your bias regarding Israel as a whole.
Incredible that you mentioned the founding of Israel! Because;
David Ben Gurion, was a leader of the Jewish terrorist organization, Haganah. Sanctioned the bombing of SS Patria (French-built ocean liner) and murdered more than 270 people. Gurion become Israel’s first Prime Minster.
Yitzhak Shamir, was a leader of the Jewish terrorist organization, Stern Gang and sanctioned the assassination of a British official and a UN official. He became a Prime Minister of Israel too.
Manchem Begin, was a leader of the Jewish terrorist organization, Irgun and sanctioned the bombing of hotel King David Hotel and murdered 91 people. He too became a Prime Minister of Israel.
Wiki:
Do you actually know the history of Israel state?
EDIT: Another article - Creation of Israel, 1948
Yeah, this is not the gotcha you might hope it to be. The whole interbellum and post WW2 was a shit show.
And you are arguing Jewish terrorists are terrorists when they reclaimed their stake from the English but the Palestinians are resistance? Jews where ousted from the region too, but if it’s long enough, then tough shit? What do we then think of all the Jews ousted from Arabic countries to Israel who where absorbed into the country? If the same had happened to the Palestinians the issue would have been mute, but the Arab friends of the Palestinians decided to keep the Palestinians locked into their predicament as this would help them most… Or something.
And the occupied territories and colonial settler programs are criminal and should stop. Gaza settlers where removed, Westbank settlers should be done the same.
I don’t care about “gotcha”, I care about respectful debates. However, I have lost interest with debating you already (due to that particular statement).
Ah, responding to the tone… got it.
Probably more because there is plenty of agreement between our stances and there is also plenty to weig. But as I said elsewhere, priorities matter and there are plenty of things to be said about Palestinians and the people that claim to help them, the list of countries and organisations that could have helped them for real is almost endless but includes the Palestinians themselves, especially in the form of Hamas, plo and the people that voted them into power.
If it means doing what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for the past 70+ years, then yes. Why on earth are the Palestinians of today repaying for something that happened centuries ago?
That’s not what I’m saying, I’m just pointing to a dou lebatabdard that you seem to apply.
That’s not what a double standard is. It would only apply if both situations were happening simultaneously or relatively close together. Kind of like America’s unconditional support for Ukraine to fight against an oppressive state compared to what they’re doing at the same time for Israel. That’s an actual double standard.