I said something along the lines of:
“Wow, I haven’t had a reason to smile ear to ear in a while.”
Along with
“Nah, the more dead corpos dragons, the better.”
In response to some liberal going off about how violence is never the solution, not mentioning how this murdered dipshit has personally overseen a system that perpetuates harm, suffering and death (violence) in the name of profit.
…
Good ole’ civility clause.
Whats the paradox of tolerance?
.world mods have never heard of it I guess.
I’m just here to point out that everyone’s going to use the downvote button as a “disagree” button and the upvote as “agree,” and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop us. You can’t hold back the tide.
Yes.
As an anarchist, I am keenly aware that rules are merely suggestions, and are utterly meaningless when no system exists to actually enforce them.
The whole thing is all just made up. There are no “rules” written down like there are for software systems. There are just shared habits and models of the world, and traditions for how to react. In general, people agree and keep it all consistent enough from day to day that the rules in their heads translate into behavior and dependable systems in the real world. But it’s all just made up. It’s just people deciding what to do, every minute, in every society, based on what they decide in their brain, no matter how strict the “rules” that supposedly exist are.
Like how we could ‘make up’ having a healthcare system that provides universal affordable care to all citizens, but instead … we …
(not actually all of us, actually the extremely wealthy and influential people who control government policy and all the media that tells us what to think about government policy)
… ‘we’ make up a horrible, unjust system that perpetuates suffering, violence and death, so that a tiny minority of people can profit!
What I’m saying is that there is no mechanical system that puts those particular people in charge.
We had the gilded age, we had the labor battles that laid the foundation for the working economy of the 20th century, we had the New Deal and prosperity for a lot of people, then we let it get away from us and the crooks took charge again. But it all can change. We can make it different. People have fought their way back to good government from places a million times worse than modern-day America.
I’m not sure what you mean by mechanical.
Obviously there is not a physical machine like a 3d printer that produces a sociopoliticaleconomic system.
But there are absolutely empirically verified theories within sociology, political science, and economics which describe why historical events happened with a pretty good degree of accuracy, and a lot of them do function pretty mechanistically to predict likely future outcomes, though with a wider margin of possibility than physics predicting a physical machine.
I’m saying that nothing enforces these particular people being in charge, other than everyone agreeing that these are the people in charge, and that can change.
It has, in huge ways, for better and worse depending, all throughout history.
nothing enforces these particular people being in charge,
Is this a joke?
You’re saying there’s no military, no police, no jobs that take all our time just to stay alive, no media that reinforces the desired narrative, no corruption, no broken electoral system, no economic stratification, no relgion and bigotry used to convince people to support their own materially worsening lives, no intentionally broken education system… none of that enforces who is in charge?
I could go on for actual hours about ludicrous this statement is, you have to almost entirely ignorant of history, poli sci, sociology, econ, a whole number of other fields, to be able to say something like this.
looks like most of the mod actions you are looking at were done by little_cow (do not tag or harass) who has actually been fairly decent and understanding in my interactions with them.
very likely these actions are being done by threat of the .world admins, who cannot be replaced or swayed as it’s their property (servers) that host the content. not getting in on either side of this because honestly idgaf but if any of this upsets you:
vote with your activity and registration and stop using lemmy.world. i was here before they essentially made lemmy a centralized platform and trust me it was way cooler back then, it could be that way again.
vote with your activity and registration and stop using lemmy.world
Additionally, people who moderate communities there might consider to either create or join alternatives elsewhere. Because, seriously, this shit is .ml/Reddit tier.
Except .ml would not ban you for these specific comments
But they would ban you for even remotely crtiical of NK, China, Russia, or Cuba. They’re terrible for different reasons.
No, it wouldn’t ban you for these specific comments, but it would ban you in the same exact scummy way: listing one rule, enforcing another, then lying that you violated the listed rule.
[Edit: I said “emphasis mine” and then deleted the quote. I’m a moron.]
I can’t really discuss the actual topic here intelligibly bc I always block !politics@lemmy.world as one of if not the very first action for every new account I make anywhere across the Fediverse (I simply prefer the alternatives like !climate@slrpnk.net and !globalnews@lemmy.zip), nor have I looked into the modlog as you have. But may I make a tangential observation, if it’s not too annoying for it to be off-topic like this?
Have you seen the actual - albeit dog whistled - calls for violence, naming actual names and showing actual faces? I just saw one in Shitpost (https://lemmy.world/post/22802422), another in Memes, and there are additional cross-posts as well. Similar content or others that likewise extoll the virtues of violence include Comic Strips (https://mander.xyz/post/21552536) showing up in communities all across Lemmy, like here’s one that’s not the post itself but rather the comment section in Not The Onion (https://midwest.social/post/20083880).
I thought that such calls for violence - as Admiral Patrick calls it somewhere here in the comments of this post, a “lynch mob mentality” - would die down quickly after the election, but it seems quite the opposite instead. So it’s a very emotionally charged issue right now. And I even get it, though aside from rightness or wrongness, people each have their preferences as to what they can stomach, and e.g. someone with lived experience through such (like a school shooting event) may not be able to handle all of this.
Anyway I’m glad that you are sharing alternatives, bc no matter what, we need to not be dependent upon a single instance. But I do see where - again, setting aside right vs. wrong - there’s a real split across Lemmy right now about how such matters “should” be handled. At which point I agree with you in spirit that there NEEDS to be transparency in the moderation practices (even if, as others have suggested elsewhere here, this particular situation seems to be the result of a single moderator who may have acted overzealously to protect people from the rhetoric). Perhaps you can write a post to the mods or even admins of that instance asking for such, though it would probably be better to wait a week for this all to die down - perhaps the mod in question will apologize, or even be removed, though what you may want instead (but don’t let me put words into your mouth) is a clarification to be made to the wording of the community or instance rules. We really can affect the changes that we’d like to see, much of the time. And if/when not, then at least you know that you did your absolute best to try:-).
Edit: even a few hours later, the process has already begun, see e.g. the apology from the mod at https://lemmy.world/comment/13815531.
links
https://lemmy.world/post/22802422 has been deleted.
https://mander.xyz/post/21552536 is hard to interpret as praising violence IMO - no explanation is given why the pigeon (a typically passive animal) is burning the house.
https://midwest.social/post/20083880) is mostly people cheering on the current events. It does praise violence, but at the same time it acknowledges that CEO as a source of suffering for people.
I do think that mob mentality plays a role, but I don’t think that it’s the main factor here. People (not just you all in USA, but everywhere) are getting pissed; the ones in power always babbling that things will get better, and yet we don’t see it.
Perhaps you can write a post to the mods or even admins of that instance asking for such, though it would probably be better to wait a week for this all to die down - perhaps the mod in question will apologize, or even be removed, though what you may want instead (but don’t let me put words into your mouth) is a clarification to be made to the wording of the community or instance rules. We really can affect the changes that we’d like to see, much of the time. And if/when not, then at least you know that you did your absolute best to try:-).
I think that the issue is mostly on an admin level, not on a mod level. And based on previous interactions with one of those admins… seriously, I’ll pass - at least that one was a bit too eager to distort things to their convenience.
Plus you know, I’m awful at writing this sort of thing down - I write a full wall of text for what would need two lines.
They have their moderation style, you would do differently, and regardless of right or wrong the goal is to match moderation activities to the community desires. But that probably will require additional volunteers to really get off the ground, so that’s perhaps something that you could do? Ofc I cannot speak to your condition wrt your life status right now, I just hoped to point to whatever I could to help you realize that you are not powerless nor alone in wanting a sense of justice to be enacted - the trick being whose justice, especially when dealing with global cross-cultural values.
Wherever we go forward from here, it will require effort. And making that list is a good start:-).
I think that it’s less about different styles (like being laxer/stricter, sticking more/less to the letter of the rules, etc.) and more about bringing bad habits from Reddit. In Reddit neither your typical non-mod user nor your typical mod gives a damn about the rules - one expects to be able to go rogue unpunished and then punished for something random, while another wants a bullshit reason to get that feeling of power over the others. (Note that I’m talking on typical grounds. There were plenty decent = exceptional mods there, too.)
And, when I say that one of the admins was too eager to distort things to their convenience, I wasn’t even referring to my interactions with them as an admin, but just as another user. From Canvas 2025 times [I can give you further context if you want.]
I do know that it’ll require effort and a collective one, and I think that we [users in general] should work in that direction. I just think that I’m the wrong person for this specific job, I’m probably better at gathering info - like the lists.
I am trying to break things down into their component parts.
First, your lists are absolutely helpful, for many reasons even those unrelated to this incident, but for helping the Fediverse become less decentralized overall - so thank you for them:-).
Second, I have mostly avoided thinking about the actual admins yet bc I haven’t heard anything from them directly yet - though indirectly from the mod in question I did hear that the admins plan to modify the ToS to increase its transparency in relation to such things. It does valid to me that they need to worry about the police 🚨 knocking on their door 🚓, hence panicked a bit when they all that stuff. It’s also hard to figure some of that stuff out bc even if Lemmy.World is in - I don’t even know where, Germany? UK? France? somewhere in the EU I would suppose - if the USA feds were to ask them to remove it or else face some troubles, what kind of pressure would that place upon them?
Third, the actions of the actual mod in question have given me strong hope for the livelihood of the Fediverse in general - she apologized immediately, rescinded the bans, offered an explanation, and also her reasoning besides, and explained what she should have done and promised will do in the future instead.
I offered more depth on these matters in a recent reply to this comment from Blaze.
I don’t even disagree with any of the mod actions here, and I fully agree with this.
I abandoned lemmy.world communities except for a handful of things, mostly the PugJesus communities and news@lemmy.world which for some reason is fine. Everything else, I found replacements for that seem like they’re way superior.
So much better.
big facts, especially for the worldnews community. for some reason my instance doesn’t see this quokk instance but i have to imagine that any mod team is better than the ineffectual nepotism heap of wilty lettuce that is !world@lemmy.world’s
!world@lemmy.world and !politics@lemmy.world are so strange. It’s just baffling. I haven’t even checked to see what’s currently going on, if MBFC bot is still around or if they’ve found a new troll to take under the protection of the mod team and ban people for arguing with. I don’t know, and I don’t want to know.
Looks like it’s !world@quokk.au and not worldnews
Hey not sure why it’s not visible on your end? I’ve seen other Lemmy.cafe users post there before.
Maybe give it a try tomorrow? Could be a Lemmy syncing thing.
@MBM@lemmings.world got me sorted. https://lemmings.world/comment/12313516 i just didn’t troubleshoot very hard lol
deleted by creator
come on over and join us sh.itheads.
lmao just realized the initialism for shit just works is also for ‘social justice warrior’
PTB, comments celebrating a person who’s horrible are not encouraging violence. This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.
I think this comment snippet speaks for itself honestly.
So many things wrong with that statement, including the falsehood that only God can judge. We do have courts, including the court of public opinion.
Well, I’m as much god as whatever they’re worshipping, so I guess I’ll do the judging.
This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
“for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.”
The dastardly, scurilous, vile agenda that human life is sacred. Well done Sherlock, you uncovered the next Hitler.
Human life isn’t sacred. The prick who got murdered cared less about human life and has more blood on his hands than anyone celebrating his demise. People have been fighting insurance companies by legal means for years and things have only gotten worse. Violence may be the only way to get change. They already reversed that awful anesthesia policy that was announced the other day.
Hitler referenace check… Now do the Jews and the camps, dear 🤡
Why is it, that every time I see a post from you, you’re saying something stupid?
They’re just one of the many trolls or bad faith lemmy users who hasn’t been banned by the server you’re on or their home server admins. Like Linkerbaan, hopefully they will in the future. I made a spreadsheet of users like that, since Lemmy itself has no way to tag or leave notes on user’s profiles that only you can see.
Literally nobody believes that human life is sacred. They may want to believe that they believe it, but one only need look at the world to see that they contradict the claim with action every day.
What people beieve is that they’re better than others, and “life is sacred” is just a tool in the toolbox of looking down upon others.
If they or even you really believed human life was sacred you’d see the piece of shit who died for the piece of shit he is as he and his company was responsible for the deaths of so many many innocent people. Instead of trying to hide behind worthless religious doctrine and saying it’s wrong to be happy that this evil person died because “all life is sacred” this is like saying “All lives matter” as a reactionary response to BLM, it makes you and that other commenter sound like one of those alt-right religious types, in the same way saying “all lives matter” in response to BLM makes you sound like a racist pig.
You may think what you are saying is good and may be confused as to why people are angry at you. The fact is that the context of the situation can make something that seems and indeed is considered good in a vacuum can make it look and sound extremely bad and make the person saying it just as bad.
I want to say that this is a case where it’s not clearly either a PTB or a YDI situation. The mods seem to be enforcing their comm/instance rules, albeit their rules in this instance seem over the top.
I wonder what kind of acronym would fit this description. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.
Can we please not turn this place into acronym soup like Reddit was in places?
You don’t even save that much time.
Power tripping bastard
You did it yourself
You save quite some time
That time being spent searching through the comments trying to decipher the acronyms.
They are in the sidebar, if people come here even once in a while they’ll know them.
Well, if you’re searching comments instead of reading the sidebar that’s always available, then you deserve to spend hours doing it.
Sorry for the double reply. I’ll create a list of alternatives to .world communities here; I’ll also add the ones you guys suggest, as long as not from .ml (as .ml and .world are apparently peas from the same pod.)
technology: !technology@lemmy.zip
politics: !uk_politics@feddit.uk (UK), !pleasantpolitics@slrpnk.net (USA), !canadapolitics@lemmy.ca (Canada), !australianpolitics@aussie.zone (Oz), !politics@beehaw.org (allegedly world, in practice USA)
news: !world@quokk.au , !globalnews@lemmy.zip
comic strips: I couldn’t find any general comm, but there’s !cyanideandhappiness@lemm.ee and !thefarside@sh.itjust.works
microblog memes: !best_of_mastodon@sh.itjust.works , !whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works , nonpoliticaltwitter@civilloquy.com
political memes: !politicalmemes@lemmy.ca , !leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
memes: !memes@sopuli.xyz
ask lemmy: !asklemmy@lemm.ee
movies and animattion: !movies@lemm.ee , !showsandmovies@lemm.ee , !animation@lemm.ee . Specifically for Japanese anime there’s ani.social (the whole instance).
EDIT: apparently the moderators apologised, including in this thread. So what I said that both are peas from the same pod might be inaccurate - it’s a matter of scale.
.
It’s funny that, when I created a list of .ml alternatives, some entitled prick was lying/assuming/bullshitting that I was trying to kill LW - since I didn’t list any LW comm. If the prick said the same now it would be true. [Still blocked because I got no time for assumers.]
I find it very good that this community is becoming the de-facto central point to ensure mods are kept in check and that such comments can be made and found.
Ditto; I don’t know if you planned this role for the comm, but it feels like a natural evolution - from complaining about mod abuse to acting against it.
I love me some emergent order.
dont we all and thats why we love you =)
Thank you - I’ll add those to the list!
They are not peas from the same pod though: Lemmy.world mods have already apologized, made some changes to the rules to clarify their points (apparently? I haven’t tracked them down yet), and resolved to do better.
Among other places, here: https://lemmy.world/comment/13815531.
In contrast, Lemmy.ml admins have only ever doubled down on their decisions, afaict.
They overlap ever so slightly, yet are worlds apart, imho. Still, it’s so good to have options bc if someone doesn’t want to be in a particular community, it’s great to have the option to jump and be elsewhere. That said, I appreciate many things that Lemmy.World offers to us: especially !tenforward@lemmy.world for funsies, but moreover entirely free access to the best parts of the Fediverse, as well as volunteer, unpaid devotion to moderate communities hosted there. Beggers cannot be choosers, but also, these mods are not billionaires - they are regular people just trying to improve things in their corner of the world, as best as they see fit. Which if we don’t like, we’ll need to step up and help out ourselves to aid and create new communities to replace those on that instance. That’s my 2¢ anyway:-D.
I’ll edit the comment addressing it, since not doubling down is a thumbs up in my book.
So are you saying that in those communities celebrating murder is encouraged or what?
I’m saying that those communities are not in an instance where the admins enforce hidden rules, unlike .world and .ml. At least, not as far as I know.
Is this clear now?
For world@quokk.au, you’re free to celebrate good news such as a CEO getting an early retirement package.
But say like if you celebrated an activist or leftist dying etc, it would be frowned upon and assessed on a case-by-case basis.
Can’t comment on bans/deservedness. Lemmy is infested with mods/agents/bots that are pro empire/CIA/military paid protectors of disinformation and said empire.
Not even a conspiracy. They spend billions every year trying to control the conversations online. The executives for many social media companies are former Mossad or CIA. Reddit admins used to have a post up acknowledging the astroturf farm at Eglin Air Force base as their highest traffic source.
Always has been…
They deff seem to be overwhelmed now. Public opinion too strong, too unified.
Dead CEO is good news.
Which is why both neoliberal and conservative politicians are pushing for strong social media censorship laws right now, and calling for repealing or modifying the first amendment.
You are definitely onto something…
This is a watershed moment IMHO and it will be used to supress 1a AND 2a
Liberals forget that 2a is there once 1a fails
Liberals don’t support the 1a nor 2a. They’re fascists.
Leftists are strong supporters of both, though.
I don’t think a tankie has any right to complain about propaganda online.
Heh, I got a good chuckle at that comment removal. So glad I moved from there to db0.
I’m torn between 🐰 and 🐇, but that’s clearly a case of PTB.
All those comments boil down to “yay, he died!”. This is not a call for violence dammit - the violence already happened, and it was done by an unrelated party. It is not a threat either, unless you expect the person to be resurrected and killed again.
If you don’t want to see people to cheer for the death of shitty people, then create a rule for that dammit. Be transparent. LW is following the steps of
.mland Reddit to enforce rules in an obnoxiously opaque way, and calling its users a bunch of gullible trash - “I’m going to ban you and claim that it was for something you didn’t, and the other morons/users/trash won’t even notice it! lol lmao”.
Whats the paradox of tolerance? // .world mods have never heard of it I guess.
It’s worse than that. Someone who’s too gullible to follow the conclusion Popper reached there would simply watch it and do nothing. They [likely the admins; I’m not sure on who, let us not witch hunt] are actually defending the intolerant.
Yeah, .world is full of slightly right of center normies and pussies.
Right of centre by Lemmy standards, they’re still pretty left compared to the real world.
this depends on what part of the world is real to you
Nah, the average Lemming is just some leftist activist, so you don’t really get what fully centrist / liberal actually means.
I fucking wish.
You can appreciate something without celebrating it.
“Erm, tos 🤓👆”
Me holding the TOS in my hands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XEwA8A5SE0
Paradox of tolerance? Are insurance companies on lemmy defending letting people die?
So much for “freedom of speech”, unless you’re rich or a CEO i guess…
I dont think you wouldnt be banned if you celebrated anyone elses murder
The problem with the bans is that most users think the murder of someone who caused people so much pain is justified, while the mod believed that celebrating murder is wrong. It wasnt about the money
I wasn’t aware lemmy was the government.
I’m honestly shocked my own comment didn’t get deleted. When I saw how many were being nuked, I had to chime in. I guess they missed it in the chaos.
