My mother was the abuser in my home. She abused me and my father. That fact doesn’t prevent me from knowing that men are statistically more likely to be the aggressor. I don’t know what I’m trying to say with this comment. Life is scary and hard enough. May we all only share and receive kindness.
I assumed you said that (about how men are far more likely to be abusers) to try to mitigate any reactions that take your very reasonable comment out of context. Any time someone points out that abuse or injustice can happen from the non-typical side of a binary situation, someone inevitably jumps in with a “well achually…” response. Sometimes it’s said with the best of intentions. Sometimes it’s just trolling our pushing a personal bias.
I disagree with others who say you are perpetuating something negative by saying that. That’s clearly not what you are doing. You are just trying to provide a preemptive response to an inevitable counterpoint. Your overall point was well-made and reinforces the tragic but insightful story behind this post.
I hope you and your dad have found peace and happiness away from your abusive mom.
It’s because you can’t say or do anything in regards to this issue without attracting people that have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping men but is simply anti-feminist.
I’ve read plenty of times online how people don’t even look for help because they were convinced online that help for men does not exist. But it does and it should be spread instead of people trying to persuade people it doesn’t exist just because they want to spread their ideology.
I think I interpret what you are saying as that you’re aware women likely need more help, but so do men, and we shouldn’t assume the smaller one doesn’t exist or ignore them because that group creates more issues than they have victims.
I don’t know what I’m trying to say with this comment
That despite being actual victim of abuse, and further witnessing your father be a victim of abuse, You still try to push the narrative that women are the only real victims and the only ones deserving of support.
and I dont say this to be mean, or snarky, or cruel to you. You’ve just got to realize how internalized you’ve got this shit.
“Every time there’s discussion about women’s issues there’s men who try to divert it to their problems and that’s annoying, therefore women should do the same thing so that men get annoyed too”.
Is that really how you want this to work? An eye for an eye?
That fact doesn’t prevent me from knowing that men are statistically more likely to be the aggressor
Right there.
He is a victim if abuse, and deserves support and understanding. He deserves to be heard without caveats. He shouldnt feel the need to have to basically hide his abuse by saying “Yeah, I was abused, but women have it so much worse” to avoid a deluge of critical comments and attacks. Which very often happens anytime a man is a victim of abuse and speaks out about it in any capacity.
He deserves support, and understanding, and resources. Same with his father. Same with all victims of abuse.
But men don’t have access to such things, because societal misandry on the topic means resources for men are downright nonexistent, because if a man tries to access currently available resources, they’ll be shut down and viewed as an abuser trying to get to vulnerable women, and anytime someone does try to provide resources for men separately, They are either attacked with dubious claims like trying to take resources away from women, or are just straight shut down and ridiculed.
And statistics are only based on reported/known crimes. male victims of abuse, domestic or sexual, are far less likely to report due to the social stigmas associated with toxic ideas of what men should be.
Thank you for saying this. It is the same when men get raped by other men. “It is male on male crime” is such a stupid take, it is blaming the person who got raped because of the gender they were born into.
There are resources and help for men. You aren’t helping anybody but sexist trolls by pretending they don’t exist. The only thing you are “achieving” is that some victims don’t even try to get help.
So you’re basically one of those sexist trolls who argue that men get abused too, therefore they couldn’t possibly be responsible for most of the abuse. And that women’s suffering is invalid.
To solve the problem, we have to accept the facts and the fact is, despite the fact that men sometimes get abused, they’re the ones doing most of the abusing and therefore are the ones who need to be fixed. Deal with that fact.
You’re fucking stupid lol, and people like you who put the label of sex in domestic violence + abuse can honestly go fuck themselves too.
A N Y O N E is capable of violence. To lessen a HUMAN BEING’S suffering just because of their sex? THAT is sexism my friend, literally the definition right there. “Men need to be fixed” because about 14% more are abusers compared to women? Not accounting for rounding, margins of error, silent cases? Considering the fact that men are far more likely to stay quiet in cases like this because of the extreme stigma that people like YOU create in circumstances like this.
Remember, YOU people brought sex into it. I don’t see male or female when I see someone suffering from domestic abuse, I see a victim!
You don’t see “female victim” on the news when you see a woman getting in a car crash, you don’t see a “male victim” headline when a man gets murdered in a street, you see VICTIM. That’s because that’s what they are and that’s what’s important at the end of the day.
The statistics say men are responsible for most of the domestic violence, but good job proving you have a shitty sexist agenda by parroting what I was telling everyone else to benefit you, while rejecting the truth.
The only ones who are going to suffer is… about a quarter of U.S. households, give or take
Parroting what you said huh? Where did I repeat a single word you said?
shitty sexist agenda
That my friend, is what parroting actually is. You brought sex into it because you want to make a specific group of people’s suffering seem insignificant solely based on the genitals they were born with. That’s literally sexism. Victims are victims, giving a specific group special attention leads to ignorance of the other group, and especially considering that about 36% of domestic violence victims are indeed men, that is NOT something that can just be ignored. It is totally ironic that you are sitting here telling me that I have a sexist agenda when you are literally downplaying just how many domestic violence victims are men, solely based on the fact that they are men.
rejecting the truth
I need citations please, show me where I denied any fact based evidence you presented. I said men are victims in an estimated 36% of domestic violence cases, everything you just stated seems like it was an attempt to somehow “prove” that I said something other than what I said.
Again, the very first sentence in my statement holds just as true as everything else I said, you are fucking STUPID.
He deserves support, and understanding, and resources. Same with his father. Same with all victims of abuse.
edit
I do want to thank pinkdrunkelephants@lemmy.cafe for being a shining, sterling example of exactly the kind of toxic people who creep up when you dare to talk about male victims though, and how they always try to twist the argument away from male victims.
The only male victim who I PERSONALLY know (not just know OF) who has spoken out about had his own family OPENLY mock him on Facebook, Several from our mutual text group make jokes about it until he left, I snapped at them and called them pieces of shit, kicked them all and disbanded the group.
Most people simply believed he was lying.
Some knew he wasn’t and mocked him for “letting himself get beaten by a woman”
And every time I hear about people like this, I wish they never have to find out just how bigoted and wrong they are. Because the only way they’ll ever believe it is if it happens to them.
Actually yes, that’s literally exactly where you say you don’t actually give a fuck about female victims of abuse. Because you came into this thread with a chip on your shoulder about women, and the second you saw someone talk about female victims of abuse, you pounced.
Because your dumb ass thinks talking about abuse happening to one group invalidates that of the other. Because to you, attention, sympathy and concern are a limited zero-sum source to squabble over.
And you bat not a fucking eye when MRA trash goes into women’s abuse threads and cries that men get abused too, and get rebuked the way you try and fail to rebuke me.
Because you are biased in favor of men at the expense of women.
I don’t know what I’m trying to say with this comment.
That’s a indicative of nervousness over even discussing the problem. Which shouldn’t be the case. The existence of a larger problem doesn’t mean people should feel nervousness over discussing smaller problems.
Also this isn’t a smaller problem for the person affected. A man that is abused is no small problem for that man. It’s the biggest problem in their life, just as for a woman that’s being abused that’s the biggest problem in her life. The fact that more women are being abused than men doesn’t lessen the effect of the abuse on the individual whether the victim is a man or a woman.
There’s a tendency for statistics to override empathy for an individual. “Ah well, that doesn’t happen very often, so whatever.” But it did happen for that person and it’s just as horrible for that person as it is for individuals in that statically larger group.
So we should make an effort to prevent statistics from negating empathy. There shouldn’t be a stigma against someone talking about a problem that’s statistically less probable as if low probability means something didn’t happen and isn’t worth talking about. It happened and and we should be aware of how statistics can have the tendency to turn us into statistical psychopaths which prevents real problems from being addressed.
Because that part is completely irrelevant to the fact that men can be victims of domestic abuse and it’s often used to dismiss the men who are victims.
Yeah, he’s maybe taken it a bit far, but his point is still valid. If I’m talking about my experience with abuse it should be allowed to stand alone. I shouldn’t have to acknowledge its place in the meta.
It’s fine to discuss its place in the wider conversation, but I shouldn’t be forced to engage with it when sharing my experience. When people do try to push this it does unfortunately come across as invalidating my experience.
The original commenter posting that bit makes it seem like they’re minimising their experience for fear of others’ reactions.
My mother was the abuser in my home. She abused me and my father. That fact doesn’t prevent me from knowing that men are statistically more likely to be the aggressor. I don’t know what I’m trying to say with this comment. Life is scary and hard enough. May we all only share and receive kindness.
Xx love you.
I assumed you said that (about how men are far more likely to be abusers) to try to mitigate any reactions that take your very reasonable comment out of context. Any time someone points out that abuse or injustice can happen from the non-typical side of a binary situation, someone inevitably jumps in with a “well achually…” response. Sometimes it’s said with the best of intentions. Sometimes it’s just trolling our pushing a personal bias.
I disagree with others who say you are perpetuating something negative by saying that. That’s clearly not what you are doing. You are just trying to provide a preemptive response to an inevitable counterpoint. Your overall point was well-made and reinforces the tragic but insightful story behind this post.
I hope you and your dad have found peace and happiness away from your abusive mom.
It’s because you can’t say or do anything in regards to this issue without attracting people that have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping men but is simply anti-feminist.
I’ve read plenty of times online how people don’t even look for help because they were convinced online that help for men does not exist. But it does and it should be spread instead of people trying to persuade people it doesn’t exist just because they want to spread their ideology.
This is exactly how I interpreted it
Well said, @cokeslutgarbage
Is this Lemmy’s rimjobsteve?
I know roger simon won’t show up. It was always his father who would beat him with jumper cables.
I think I interpret what you are saying as that you’re aware women likely need more help, but so do men, and we shouldn’t assume the smaller one doesn’t exist or ignore them because that group creates more issues than they have victims.
Thank you for that balanced take on this issue.
So sorry to hear that.
I read:
No notes besides sending some love back, brother.
That despite being actual victim of abuse, and further witnessing your father be a victim of abuse, You still try to push the narrative that women are the only real victims and the only ones deserving of support.
and I dont say this to be mean, or snarky, or cruel to you. You’ve just got to realize how internalized you’ve got this shit.
deleted by creator
But why bring this up in a thread about abused men?
Because you all constantly bring up the fact that men are abused whenever women talk about their suffering in order to invalidate what they’re saying.
And now that the shoe’s on the other foot, you complain.
And while you’re squabbling with me over it, the slave racket will keep churning out more crushed souls.
“Every time there’s discussion about women’s issues there’s men who try to divert it to their problems and that’s annoying, therefore women should do the same thing so that men get annoyed too”.
Is that really how you want this to work? An eye for an eye?
Should I even bother justifying that with a response knowing you won’t ever listen or care unless it happens to a man anyway?
Right there.
He is a victim if abuse, and deserves support and understanding. He deserves to be heard without caveats. He shouldnt feel the need to have to basically hide his abuse by saying “Yeah, I was abused, but women have it so much worse” to avoid a deluge of critical comments and attacks. Which very often happens anytime a man is a victim of abuse and speaks out about it in any capacity.
He deserves support, and understanding, and resources. Same with his father. Same with all victims of abuse.
But men don’t have access to such things, because societal misandry on the topic means resources for men are downright nonexistent, because if a man tries to access currently available resources, they’ll be shut down and viewed as an abuser trying to get to vulnerable women, and anytime someone does try to provide resources for men separately, They are either attacked with dubious claims like trying to take resources away from women, or are just straight shut down and ridiculed.
And statistics are only based on reported/known crimes. male victims of abuse, domestic or sexual, are far less likely to report due to the social stigmas associated with toxic ideas of what men should be.
Thank you for saying this. It is the same when men get raped by other men. “It is male on male crime” is such a stupid take, it is blaming the person who got raped because of the gender they were born into.
There are resources and help for men. You aren’t helping anybody but sexist trolls by pretending they don’t exist. The only thing you are “achieving” is that some victims don’t even try to get help.
Gonna break out all the alts for this, huh?
So you’re basically one of those sexist trolls who argue that men get abused too, therefore they couldn’t possibly be responsible for most of the abuse. And that women’s suffering is invalid.
To solve the problem, we have to accept the facts and the fact is, despite the fact that men sometimes get abused, they’re the ones doing most of the abusing and therefore are the ones who need to be fixed. Deal with that fact.
You’re fucking stupid lol, and people like you who put the label of sex in domestic violence + abuse can honestly go fuck themselves too.
A N Y O N E is capable of violence. To lessen a HUMAN BEING’S suffering just because of their sex? THAT is sexism my friend, literally the definition right there. “Men need to be fixed” because about 14% more are abusers compared to women? Not accounting for rounding, margins of error, silent cases? Considering the fact that men are far more likely to stay quiet in cases like this because of the extreme stigma that people like YOU create in circumstances like this.
Remember, YOU people brought sex into it. I don’t see male or female when I see someone suffering from domestic abuse, I see a victim!
You don’t see “female victim” on the news when you see a woman getting in a car crash, you don’t see a “male victim” headline when a man gets murdered in a street, you see VICTIM. That’s because that’s what they are and that’s what’s important at the end of the day.
The statistics say men are responsible for most of the domestic violence, but good job proving you have a shitty sexist agenda by parroting what I was telling everyone else to benefit you, while rejecting the truth.
The only ones who are going to suffer is… about a quarter of U.S. households, give or take
Parroting what you said huh? Where did I repeat a single word you said?
That my friend, is what parroting actually is. You brought sex into it because you want to make a specific group of people’s suffering seem insignificant solely based on the genitals they were born with. That’s literally sexism. Victims are victims, giving a specific group special attention leads to ignorance of the other group, and especially considering that about 36% of domestic violence victims are indeed men, that is NOT something that can just be ignored. It is totally ironic that you are sitting here telling me that I have a sexist agenda when you are literally downplaying just how many domestic violence victims are men, solely based on the fact that they are men.
I need citations please, show me where I denied any fact based evidence you presented. I said men are victims in an estimated 36% of domestic violence cases, everything you just stated seems like it was an attempt to somehow “prove” that I said something other than what I said.
Again, the very first sentence in my statement holds just as true as everything else I said, you are fucking STUPID.
Project harder, troll.
And the slave racket keeps churning out more broken people while you squabble with me to try to be right about something.
Is you arguing with me going to do anything to save any abuse victims? Any of the male ones who are clearly the only ones you give a fuck about? Hmm?
Oh damn, you got me. Yep. I only care about male victims
edit I do want to thank pinkdrunkelephants@lemmy.cafe for being a shining, sterling example of exactly the kind of toxic people who creep up when you dare to talk about male victims though, and how they always try to twist the argument away from male victims.
The only male victim who I PERSONALLY know (not just know OF) who has spoken out about had his own family OPENLY mock him on Facebook, Several from our mutual text group make jokes about it until he left, I snapped at them and called them pieces of shit, kicked them all and disbanded the group.
Most people simply believed he was lying.
Some knew he wasn’t and mocked him for “letting himself get beaten by a woman”
And every time I hear about people like this, I wish they never have to find out just how bigoted and wrong they are. Because the only way they’ll ever believe it is if it happens to them.
Actually yes, that’s literally exactly where you say you don’t actually give a fuck about female victims of abuse. Because you came into this thread with a chip on your shoulder about women, and the second you saw someone talk about female victims of abuse, you pounced.
Because your dumb ass thinks talking about abuse happening to one group invalidates that of the other. Because to you, attention, sympathy and concern are a limited zero-sum source to squabble over.
And you bat not a fucking eye when MRA trash goes into women’s abuse threads and cries that men get abused too, and get rebuked the way you try and fail to rebuke me.
Because you are biased in favor of men at the expense of women.
You’re the problem. Literally you
That’s a indicative of nervousness over even discussing the problem. Which shouldn’t be the case. The existence of a larger problem doesn’t mean people should feel nervousness over discussing smaller problems.
Also this isn’t a smaller problem for the person affected. A man that is abused is no small problem for that man. It’s the biggest problem in their life, just as for a woman that’s being abused that’s the biggest problem in her life. The fact that more women are being abused than men doesn’t lessen the effect of the abuse on the individual whether the victim is a man or a woman.
There’s a tendency for statistics to override empathy for an individual. “Ah well, that doesn’t happen very often, so whatever.” But it did happen for that person and it’s just as horrible for that person as it is for individuals in that statically larger group.
So we should make an effort to prevent statistics from negating empathy. There shouldn’t be a stigma against someone talking about a problem that’s statistically less probable as if low probability means something didn’t happen and isn’t worth talking about. It happened and and we should be aware of how statistics can have the tendency to turn us into statistical psychopaths which prevents real problems from being addressed.
Because that part is completely irrelevant to the fact that men can be victims of domestic abuse and it’s often used to dismiss the men who are victims.
And the fact that he feels the need to pre-emptively dismiss himself that way is sad. He shouldn’t have to feel that way.
Yeah, he’s maybe taken it a bit far, but his point is still valid. If I’m talking about my experience with abuse it should be allowed to stand alone. I shouldn’t have to acknowledge its place in the meta.
It’s fine to discuss its place in the wider conversation, but I shouldn’t be forced to engage with it when sharing my experience. When people do try to push this it does unfortunately come across as invalidating my experience.
The original commenter posting that bit makes it seem like they’re minimising their experience for fear of others’ reactions.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/12/18/fallacies-of-reversed-moderation/
That is very kind of you, cokeslutgarbage. Not my business but anyway: this may be the moment when a username deserves to be changed.
😂 I didn’t notice until you mentioned it.
Hoping there’s a r/rimjob_steve equivalent here on Lemmy! 🤞
you were saying?
Yeah it could probably use a cunt at the end for maximum efficacy
no.
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