I don’t think any right-thinking person has any sympathy for Hamas, and rightly so.
However, Palestinians are not automatically members of Hamas. This would be like saying you’re “done with” Americans and we should bomb every major American city because of the actions of the Proud Boys and other right-wing militias.
A more reasonable comparison would be to feel completely done with USA because of the republicans or democrats, but not even that compares since the support of both parties actually are lower than that of Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Palestine
Just a few things thats come up in Sweden in “support of palestine” after the 7th october attack.
The most important part of this is the support level. I have 2 points about this. First is that 43% of Palestinians in Gaza that don’t support Hamas are entitled to not be blown up or displaced, the second is that out of those 57% there’s a big difference between material support and just ticking a box in a poll. Does someone who says “Hitler did nothing wrong” deserve execution? I would argue they should be deplatformed, but not starved, tortured, shot and/or bombed.
And to add to that, these people did not say “Hamas did nothing wrong”. 58% said they saw Hamas as very or “somewhat” positive. This is an organisation who on one hand is a terrorist organisation, but who on the other hand operates social services. People living in deep poverty who are exposed to the social services aspect will naturally to some extent be willing to tick a box saying “somewhat positive” (38%, vs 20% “very positive”) for an organization who they personally have first-hand positive interactions with.
Despite that, and at the same time, the same survey also points out that 70% of the population in Gaza wants Hamas to give up separate armed units and hand power over the the Palestinian Authority, which should give some insight into how “somewhat positive” does not mean “agree with brutal terrorism against civilians” given that it in fact doesn’t even mean “thinks Hamas should stay in charge or have control of armed units”.
This person keeps grossly misrepresenting the level of support actually expressed.
I completely agree. Everyone wants a nice simple goodie vs baddie dynamic but that’s just not how it is.
Innocent people are being killed. I am pro-non-combatants-not-dying.
Frankly it’s bizarre that western countries are so supportive of Israel. Yes Israel needs to defend itself but I don’t think that requires the deaths of 5,000 mostly innocent Palestinians.
Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict.
Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies?
Oh definitely, agreed. I’m not siding with israel at all, I’m calling out how absolutely disgusting it is that people are coming to defense of these actions, and defending the worldspread celebrations of these deeds by the people who emigrated away from there.
Holy shit, way to misrepresent an article. I urge anyone who thinks the above commenter had a good point to click through and at least read the headline of the article.
I guess you thought it a complete coincidence that all of Israel’s traditional supporters were countries that all had deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism, eh? France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Apartheid-era South Africa and, of course, the US - just a complete coincidence, right?
Did you start hating all Germans once Hitler got into power? If you didn’t, that’s mighty hypocritical of you. If you did, that’s misguidedly racist as well.
Exactly this. People are oversimplify the whole story. In my opinion there’s 2 camps of people who currently supports Palestine.
They just don’t know the historical background and don’t know specifically -what- Hamas did the 7th, nor the huge support Hamas has in Palestine. (to clarify, A TERROR GROUP that has SUMMER CAMPS where they train kids to become terrorists).
They support them because they enjoy jews getting killed.
Concidering how the rich arab countries has reacted during their neighbour’s times of need earlier: closing borders and not caring, group number 2 seems likely.
Just picture that the Palestinians actually celebrate Hamas terrorist attack, they feel joy over the actions many of us now have seen on videos and they celebrate it even in the streets in Western countries.
Imagine that 57% of Palestinians supports Hamas and 50% are against the idea of peace, 71% supports PIJ (Islamic Jihad), all while Biden won his election with 51%, Obama won with 53%, George Bush won in 1989 by 53%, last time any president got more votes than the support Hamas has in Palestine was in 1984, 39 years ago! Source about Palestinians support.
That’s how enormous the support of Hamas is, and some of ya’ll are defending them. You need to watch the videos released of the atrocities Hamas committed, see the actions that you’re defending, but I bet you don’t even have the stomachs for it.
What about the group that’s aware that Palestinians were forced out of their homes and have been forced to live in impoverished conditions for decades?
What about the group that recognizes the actions of both sides as being wrong and that neither side is “right”?
There are many Israelis fighting hard to protect civilian lives, both in Gaza and the West Bank. You should look up B’Tselem. Quite a few of their activists got arrested over the last few days for peacefully protesting the bombing campaign.
Oh yes I’m not justifying israels expansion at all, israel isn’t some completely innocent toddler sitting in a corner. It’s however very interesting that you’re excusing the recorded actions that has showed up online though, the rape, the murders, the torture, the executions of whole families in their homes, because “israel also did bad!”.
I feel no empathy for those who affiliates themselves, supports, and/or celebrates it. Those actions regardless of the reason or source are absolutely fucking despicable. They specifically targetted civilians instead of soldiers, police, or people in the government. They went in to specifically kill anybody that couldn’t defend themselves simply for being jewish, and living in Israel. Watch the clips again and then tell me “Oh yeah well what about…”
Nobody is exusing anything. Shelling cities and blowing up residential buildings Is bad. So is raping and murdering civilians.
Most of us just want the violence to stop on both sides. Hamas was a side effect of Israel’s oppression. Same as most other terrorist groups and gangs. Everyone is doing awful things and it just needs to fucking stop.
Your comments are rife with false dichotomies, strawmen, and general fabrications. If that’s what you need to make your points, you might want to look at your stance critically and ask yourself some hard questions.
It’s cute when someone posts claims contradicted by their own source. The link actually says that “57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas”.
Consider that while Hamas is a terrorist organisation it also runs social programs, exactly to effectively buy this kind of support. For some poor family in Gaza struggling to survive it’s unsurprising that if given handouts by Hamas that some will express that kind of muted positive views even for a dictatorial regime that 70% of Gazans wants removed from power per the same link (see below).
To try to twist that into “supports” is victim-blaming of the worst sort.
Should we meanwhile talk about Israel, where there actually are regular elections and majorities keep voting in regimes that perpetuate an apartheid regime and commits gross crimes against humanity? Or is it only people in Gaza who are responsible for their governments actions, despite the fact that the majority of those of voting age in Gaza were not old enough to be part of the electorate that brought Hamas to power (in an election where they got a minority of votes).
some of ya’ll are defending them
Just like some are defending the mass murderous apartheid regime of Israel or try to implicate Palestinian civilians for actions they had no party in.
Meanwhile most of us think Hamas are terrorists but also recognise that Israel is an oppressive apartheid state and the only party with the power to actually end this, and yet is doubling down on crimes against humanity.
If you think hating Palestinians is justified because of support for Hamas while they do terrible things, do you also think it is justified to hate Israel for the inhumanity the Israeli government (which has the support of the Israeli people) has perpetuated since Israel was brought into the region?
And plenty of Americans (probably around 50% given recent election results) would rejoice over any innocent civilian we killed in “the war on terror” and would defend war criminals in the US military. Would that make it okay to starve and bomb the entire population of the US? Is everyone in this country a war criminal?
Misinformation, stereotypes, and “Wuttabaut 'murica” galore! Truly hit the trifecta. Not really no, when war crimes have been brought up the general concensus has been jail. Don’t make shit up.
Famous examples are that navy seal “Eddie Gallagher” or the 4 blackwater guys that killed 14 civilians in 2007. They were all convicted, but made the big headlines with a huge backlash after Trump pardoned them, the absolute fucking bafoon… If clips surfaced of american soldiers comitting these actions, people would be outraged. Remember Guantanamo bay? There was a huge public backlash and push towards closing it from all sides, and there’s strong support for arguing “the war” was lost because the public turned against it.
Google “american soldier jailed afghanistan” and the list of links will just keep going page by page. You’ll never see any terrorist imprisoned in Palestine because of their involvement and participation in the 7th october. But yeah sure “WHAT ABOUT 'MURICANS?!?!?!”
How do you prove my point way better than I could, but still act like you made a point against me?
Like you say Trump pardoned them, and almost 50% of the country had no problem with that.
You mention guantanamo, but it’s still open and nobody cares.
And not to mention things like the Hague invasion act, where the US says it will literally invade Europe if the ICC tries to bring an American to court for war crimes. And most of the US doesn’t care, hell a lot fucking support that idea cuz 'murica.
And anyway you completely fucking misread my comment. I’m not saying palestine is innocent because America did bad things. Its not whattaboutism its me saying “what if this was happening to you”? What I’d some chud decided that it was fair to punish the whole USA because shitty people in your country have a lot of support.
That’s the point of the comment that you so conveniently ignored.
It’s simple, don’t steal their houses, encroach on their land, fracture their community into an archipelago divided by walls, and put checkpoints every two miles, and restrict trade. Don’t do any of that, especially don’t do it while preaching about genocide and the holocaust and then asking for hand outs. Then I wouldn’t care, and might even support israel.
This why Palestinians hate Israel, Israel literally destroyed their country.
Also pretty fucking rich to dig elections from 17 years ago where Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize other groups so people like you would be fooled.
Hamas are obviously fascistic, and they were voted in by Palestinians. Which means that IDF is being an antifascist in their current operations. Punch a nazi and all that.
You forgot another important point: the absolute majority of Muslims will defend Palestine, no matter what they do.
You risk being reprimanded in your Muslim community if you aren’t 100 % pro Palestine and often also when you aren’t pro Hamas. It has become part of their identity.
Palestinians asking for a homeland. They are at home and have been invaded for over 70 years
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I don’t think any right-thinking person has any sympathy for Hamas, and rightly so.
However, Palestinians are not automatically members of Hamas. This would be like saying you’re “done with” Americans and we should bomb every major American city because of the actions of the Proud Boys and other right-wing militias.
The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even.
A more reasonable comparison would be to feel completely done with USA because of the republicans or democrats, but not even that compares since the support of both parties actually are lower than that of Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Palestine
Just a few things thats come up in Sweden in “support of palestine” after the 7th october attack.
Hizb Ut-Tahrir flags, terrorists that are radical islamists, banned in 6 + almost all Arab countries. Their goal is to create a Muslim caliphate by fights against their idea of non-muslim regimes. They recognize no other religion, is heavily anti-semitic, and is founded in Jerusalem
The biggest arabic newspaper in Sweden had 2 editors show open support for Hamas- quote: “may god assist them and give them victory” and “our guys are good” just hours after the attack.
Big number of cars driving up and down the streets honking and waving flags hours after the terrorist attack. In the comments people are discussing how big this demonstration was, and how several streets were completely shut off, aswell as some Danish commenters explaining how it was the same in Copenhagen.
Article about the demonstrations aswell as the support shown online to these terrorist attacks. This one isn’t as credible as the rest since it’s a very right-wing website, but the demonstrations are true and the comments they mention were on full display in support of Hamas murdering jews.
Here’s our government discussing entirely stopping all financial and humanitarian aid to Palestine because of the huge support shown for the murders, kidnappings, and tortures that were committed the 7th. Quote: “We cannot provide support for a government that celebrates and shows support for actions like these”
The most important part of this is the support level. I have 2 points about this. First is that 43% of Palestinians in Gaza that don’t support Hamas are entitled to not be blown up or displaced, the second is that out of those 57% there’s a big difference between material support and just ticking a box in a poll. Does someone who says “Hitler did nothing wrong” deserve execution? I would argue they should be deplatformed, but not starved, tortured, shot and/or bombed.
And to add to that, these people did not say “Hamas did nothing wrong”. 58% said they saw Hamas as very or “somewhat” positive. This is an organisation who on one hand is a terrorist organisation, but who on the other hand operates social services. People living in deep poverty who are exposed to the social services aspect will naturally to some extent be willing to tick a box saying “somewhat positive” (38%, vs 20% “very positive”) for an organization who they personally have first-hand positive interactions with.
Despite that, and at the same time, the same survey also points out that 70% of the population in Gaza wants Hamas to give up separate armed units and hand power over the the Palestinian Authority, which should give some insight into how “somewhat positive” does not mean “agree with brutal terrorism against civilians” given that it in fact doesn’t even mean “thinks Hamas should stay in charge or have control of armed units”.
This person keeps grossly misrepresenting the level of support actually expressed.
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Why anyone is taking sides in this is just beyond me. They’re all literally terrible, both Hamas and the Israeli government.
It’s just Iraq all over again
I completely agree. Everyone wants a nice simple goodie vs baddie dynamic but that’s just not how it is.
Innocent people are being killed. I am pro-non-combatants-not-dying.
Frankly it’s bizarre that western countries are so supportive of Israel. Yes Israel needs to defend itself but I don’t think that requires the deaths of 5,000 mostly innocent Palestinians.
A radical idea: if “defending yourself” requires killing thousands of Innocent people, you do not, in fact, have a right to “defend yourself”.
I’m greatly worried the whole debacle is taking away much-needed attention from Ukraine.
Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict.
Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies?
I feel like these wars are doing just that.
Oh definitely, agreed. I’m not siding with israel at all, I’m calling out how absolutely disgusting it is that people are coming to defense of these actions, and defending the worldspread celebrations of these deeds by the people who emigrated away from there.
That’s my position too. How can you celebrate in the street after a terrorist attacks like this ?
Oh no, it’s the consequences of my own actions again.
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Holy shit, way to misrepresent an article. I urge anyone who thinks the above commenter had a good point to click through and at least read the headline of the article.
Ah yes let’s „be done“ with a whole group of people, that’s normal rhetoric 👍
In other words… your sympathies always lay with the white supremacist settler-colonialist project and not their victims.
How is Israel a white supremacist settler-colonist? Do you know anything about Israel?
I guess you thought it a complete coincidence that all of Israel’s traditional supporters were countries that all had deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism, eh? France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Apartheid-era South Africa and, of course, the US - just a complete coincidence, right?
Israel has never been anything else.
Hamas isn’t Palestine.
No
Did you start hating all Germans once Hitler got into power? If you didn’t, that’s mighty hypocritical of you. If you did, that’s misguidedly racist as well.
Last drop in the bucket was how they dug up the water pipes that europe paid for, to make rockets out of them.
You sound so utterly clueless about the whole thing. And stupid to boot.
What a bullshit and extremely simplistic take on the situation. As if they have been the victims here for 70 years.
Palestinians haven’t been the victims here? The ones being evicted and shot by illegal “settlers” for decades?
I mean, didn’t this all start from a war where Israel was attacked by 3 countries and beat all of them so bad they actually gained ground?
“Egypt attacked me, so I get to annex the West Bank now”
Yeah, that’s not how logic works.
Exactly this. People are oversimplify the whole story. In my opinion there’s 2 camps of people who currently supports Palestine.
They just don’t know the historical background and don’t know specifically -what- Hamas did the 7th, nor the huge support Hamas has in Palestine. (to clarify, A TERROR GROUP that has SUMMER CAMPS where they train kids to become terrorists).
They support them because they enjoy jews getting killed.
Concidering how the rich arab countries has reacted during their neighbour’s times of need earlier: closing borders and not caring, group number 2 seems likely.
Just picture that the Palestinians actually celebrate Hamas terrorist attack, they feel joy over the actions many of us now have seen on videos and they celebrate it even in the streets in Western countries.
Imagine that 57% of Palestinians supports Hamas and 50% are against the idea of peace, 71% supports PIJ (Islamic Jihad), all while Biden won his election with 51%, Obama won with 53%, George Bush won in 1989 by 53%, last time any president got more votes than the support Hamas has in Palestine was in 1984, 39 years ago! Source about Palestinians support.
That’s how enormous the support of Hamas is, and some of ya’ll are defending them. You need to watch the videos released of the atrocities Hamas committed, see the actions that you’re defending, but I bet you don’t even have the stomachs for it.
What about the group that’s aware that Palestinians were forced out of their homes and have been forced to live in impoverished conditions for decades?
What about the group that recognizes the actions of both sides as being wrong and that neither side is “right”?
They’ll be ignored because all Israelis know what the state’s endgame is here and all its horrible implications.
There are many Israelis fighting hard to protect civilian lives, both in Gaza and the West Bank. You should look up B’Tselem. Quite a few of their activists got arrested over the last few days for peacefully protesting the bombing campaign.
Oh yes I’m not justifying israels expansion at all, israel isn’t some completely innocent toddler sitting in a corner. It’s however very interesting that you’re excusing the recorded actions that has showed up online though, the rape, the murders, the torture, the executions of whole families in their homes, because “israel also did bad!”.
I feel no empathy for those who affiliates themselves, supports, and/or celebrates it. Those actions regardless of the reason or source are absolutely fucking despicable. They specifically targetted civilians instead of soldiers, police, or people in the government. They went in to specifically kill anybody that couldn’t defend themselves simply for being jewish, and living in Israel. Watch the clips again and then tell me “Oh yeah well what about…”
Nobody is exusing anything. Shelling cities and blowing up residential buildings Is bad. So is raping and murdering civilians.
Most of us just want the violence to stop on both sides. Hamas was a side effect of Israel’s oppression. Same as most other terrorist groups and gangs. Everyone is doing awful things and it just needs to fucking stop.
Your comments are rife with false dichotomies, strawmen, and general fabrications. If that’s what you need to make your points, you might want to look at your stance critically and ask yourself some hard questions.
It’s cute when someone posts claims contradicted by their own source. The link actually says that “57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas”.
Consider that while Hamas is a terrorist organisation it also runs social programs, exactly to effectively buy this kind of support. For some poor family in Gaza struggling to survive it’s unsurprising that if given handouts by Hamas that some will express that kind of muted positive views even for a dictatorial regime that 70% of Gazans wants removed from power per the same link (see below).
To try to twist that into “supports” is victim-blaming of the worst sort.
Should we meanwhile talk about Israel, where there actually are regular elections and majorities keep voting in regimes that perpetuate an apartheid regime and commits gross crimes against humanity? Or is it only people in Gaza who are responsible for their governments actions, despite the fact that the majority of those of voting age in Gaza were not old enough to be part of the electorate that brought Hamas to power (in an election where they got a minority of votes).
Just like some are defending the mass murderous apartheid regime of Israel or try to implicate Palestinian civilians for actions they had no party in.
Meanwhile most of us think Hamas are terrorists but also recognise that Israel is an oppressive apartheid state and the only party with the power to actually end this, and yet is doubling down on crimes against humanity.
To focus on Hamas is deflection.
If you think hating Palestinians is justified because of support for Hamas while they do terrible things, do you also think it is justified to hate Israel for the inhumanity the Israeli government (which has the support of the Israeli people) has perpetuated since Israel was brought into the region?
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Ah yes, the solution to all the murder is even more murder!
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And plenty of Americans (probably around 50% given recent election results) would rejoice over any innocent civilian we killed in “the war on terror” and would defend war criminals in the US military. Would that make it okay to starve and bomb the entire population of the US? Is everyone in this country a war criminal?
Misinformation, stereotypes, and “Wuttabaut 'murica” galore! Truly hit the trifecta. Not really no, when war crimes have been brought up the general concensus has been jail. Don’t make shit up.
Famous examples are that navy seal “Eddie Gallagher” or the 4 blackwater guys that killed 14 civilians in 2007. They were all convicted, but made the big headlines with a huge backlash after Trump pardoned them, the absolute fucking bafoon… If clips surfaced of american soldiers comitting these actions, people would be outraged. Remember Guantanamo bay? There was a huge public backlash and push towards closing it from all sides, and there’s strong support for arguing “the war” was lost because the public turned against it.
Google “american soldier jailed afghanistan” and the list of links will just keep going page by page. You’ll never see any terrorist imprisoned in Palestine because of their involvement and participation in the 7th october. But yeah sure “WHAT ABOUT 'MURICANS?!?!?!”
How do you prove my point way better than I could, but still act like you made a point against me?
Like you say Trump pardoned them, and almost 50% of the country had no problem with that.
You mention guantanamo, but it’s still open and nobody cares.
And not to mention things like the Hague invasion act, where the US says it will literally invade Europe if the ICC tries to bring an American to court for war crimes. And most of the US doesn’t care, hell a lot fucking support that idea cuz 'murica.
And anyway you completely fucking misread my comment. I’m not saying palestine is innocent because America did bad things. Its not whattaboutism its me saying “what if this was happening to you”? What I’d some chud decided that it was fair to punish the whole USA because shitty people in your country have a lot of support.
That’s the point of the comment that you so conveniently ignored.
If you have to lie to make your point, maybe you should reconsider how valid your point is.
It’s simple, don’t steal their houses, encroach on their land, fracture their community into an archipelago divided by walls, and put checkpoints every two miles, and restrict trade. Don’t do any of that, especially don’t do it while preaching about genocide and the holocaust and then asking for hand outs. Then I wouldn’t care, and might even support israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba?wprov=sfla1
This why Palestinians hate Israel, Israel literally destroyed their country.
Also pretty fucking rich to dig elections from 17 years ago where Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize other groups so people like you would be fooled.
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Hamas are obviously fascistic, and they were voted in by Palestinians. Which means that IDF is being an antifascist in their current operations. Punch a nazi and all that.
Just to clarify, being antifascist necessitates being against fascism of all kinds, not just the ones who are your enemy.
Not to imply that the IDF are being fascist, but genocide is a likely outcome, whether ideologically intentional or incidental.
At the end of the day, this is a language game. Personally, I don’t care for the semantics of it all. I’m honestly quite anti-semantic.
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You forgot another important point: the absolute majority of Muslims will defend Palestine, no matter what they do. You risk being reprimanded in your Muslim community if you aren’t 100 % pro Palestine and often also when you aren’t pro Hamas. It has become part of their identity.