Very weird that I am so old and have literally never heard this mentioned in a TV show or book or movie or anything.
In four out of five states, if you go to prison, you are literally paying for the time you spend there.
As you can guess, this results in crippling debt as soon as you’re released.
The county gets back a fraction of what they hold over your head the rest of your life until you commit suicide(or die naturally and peacefully with the sword of damocles hanging over your head).
$20-$80 a day according to Rutgers.
Counties apparently sue people and employ wage garnishment to get back the money that majority of people obviously cannot pay back.
https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees
They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison Following the rights movement, you clamped on with your iron fists Drugs became conveniently available for all the kids Following the rights movement, you clamped on with your iron fists Drugs became conveniently available for all the kids I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch right here in Hollywood (Nearly two million Americans are incarcerated in the prison system, prison system of the US) They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison (For you and me to live in) Another prison system Another prison system Another prison system (For you and me) Minor drug offenders fill your prisons you don’t even flinch All our taxes paying for your wars against the new non-rich Minor drug offenders fill your prisons you don’t even flinch All our taxes paying for your wars against the new non-rich I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch right here in Hollywood (The percentage of Americans in the prison system, prison system, has doubled since 1985) They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison (For you and me to live in) Another prison system Another prison system Another prison system (For you and me) For you and I, you and I, you and I You and I They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison for you and me Oh, baby, you and me Oh Oh All research and successful drug policy show that treatment should be increased (Oh) And law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences (Oh) All research and successful drug policy show that treatment should be increased (Oh) And law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences Utilising drugs to pay for secret wars around the world Drugs are now your global policy, now you police the globe I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch right here in Hollywood Drug money is used to rig elections and train brutal corporate sponsored dictators around the world They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison (For you and me to live in) Another prison system Another prison system Another prison system (For you and me) For you and I, you and I, you and I You and me They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison They’re trying to build a prison for you and me Oh, baby, you and me
Yeah that’s a good one.
You can separate the lines so it’s not all clumped together by adding double spaces at the end of the line.
I had to do that once when I posted a message like this haha
You can separate the lines so it’s not all clumped together by adding double spaces at the end of the line.
I’m fully aware of this and saw what it did when I pasted it in…however…
I felt like a dingus tapping out all the spaces
I was also aware of this before I even began to, so I didn’t bother.
Did you see that slash trick
another commenter saysif you throw a after a line
all of the following lines will beAutomatically formatted
Correctly
For song lyrics Not this one thoughOh, but you still have to throw a after every single line. \
Very weird that I am so old and have literally never heard this mentioned in a TV show or book or movie or anything.
I don’t think that’s weird at all. But it certainly says a lot about the US media landscape.
I’ve also never met anyone in real life who has ever heard about this.
And at this point I’ve texted everybody I know.
How did zero people ever in my whole life know this?
Like I know lawyers, and we’ve occasionally talked about how terrible the prison situation in the United States is, it’s crazy that not one of them mentioned that prisoner is also have to pay to stay.
Ever.
Charging a prisoner to stay in jail seems like one of the cruelest parts of prison, now that I know about it. That seems crazy.
And that’s what literally everyone I have told is saying.
“That’s crazy.” And it is. It’s crazy
The people writing these laws and the people paying them to write them are the ones who belong in prison.
This is some serious “keep hitting yourself” material. It’s not like you can decide to not be incarcerated. $7300-$29200 of debt per year spent in prison. Man, that is some vicious shit. Nobody will be able to convince me that this is not specifically designed to keep people down forever.
Nobody will convince me that two plus two isn’t four.
Exactly. Recidivism makes a lot more sense now.
Imagine if you had $30,000 of debt right after you get out of jail with zero contacts and social support.
Yeah of course you’re going to go back to what you were doing before, you have no other options that you’re aware of.
Fuck that system.
It’s not rehabilitation, it’s slavery with extra steps
The amendment banning slavery says you can still enslave people if it’s to punish them for a crime
Prisons are largely privatized nowadays, creating a demand for prisoners as they profit off of the free labor they get from prisoners
Rehabilitation efforts in the modern penal system are largely non-existent, with people usually coming out more violent and criminal than they came in, even if it was a bullshit arrest.
Black people are incarcerated at higher rates and with harsher sentences than white people for the same crimes, they also tend to get found guilty on much weaker evidence than their white peers
If you think it’s a coincidence, I can’t help you
Were you responding to me specifically or just sharing this information in general?
I am talking to you, I’m just saying the system wasn’t designed this way out of stupidity, but malice.
Got it.
And it’s never going to change either. No politician would ever campaign on a platform of prison reform, few would even vote in favor of it. Imagine the attack ads “Jeff Jackson wants to let murders and rapists go free and work at your kid’s school. Jack Jefferson protects kids and is tough on criminals voting three time to
ensure growth of his investments in PrisonMegaCorpmake sure they rot in prison forever… I’m Jack Jefferson and I approve this message.”Prison reform can happen in the United States, and it can be used as a platform by Earnest politicians like Bernie Sanders or AOC.
Prison abuse and reform happened in other countries, and there isn’t any evidence for inherent American exceptionalism
People are people, so positive prison reforms can happen in the States too.
It would be nice if the prisoners could take class or earn a degree while in prison, at least when they get out they have a new skill or a degree so they have a better chance to get a job to pay off their prison debt.
You can, just not a degree specifically but you can get certifications and a ged in prison
I commented this elsewhere, but a lot of those certifications are not worth anything because if you are a felon you cannot get that state license.
You absolutely can still use those certifications and they are often the stepping stone to help you get your foot in the door in an industry. I used to work IT in corrections and while not everyone winds up making it, I’ve seen felons go on to make $40/hr doing welding.
I do not agree with the US when it comes to corrections at all and I think it is blatantly abused in order to incarcerate as many people as possible, but I will give credit where it is due, not ALL hope is lost if you get incarcerated
That would happen if Rehabilitation was the goal, that is not the point of the private prison system, the point is to legalize slavery.
This is a standart in German prisons.
Do all the politicians sleep in prison?
In Finland low risk prisoners can even get (or keep) a job. They drive a loaner car from the prison to their job in the morning and then drive back to prison in the afternoon.
As someone who’s lived in the US her life everytime I hear about other first world nations it sounds so idyllic that if you put it in a Utopian Future Sci-Fi novel I’d laugh and call it hopelessly optimistic and just incredibly naive about how humans work…
But… no… people outside of America actually live like this…
This is not a cry for help (It totally is, I hate it here)
But for real though, if America wasn’t a world power (at the expense of its citizens’ well-being) or if there were other world powers strong as or stronger than it that weren’t Russia or China, I would not be even slightly surprised if it offered amnesty to US Citizens fleeing Late Stage Capitalism, at this point it’d be morally justified…
The UN actually did surveys here and found that Americans (especially in rural areas) experience levels of poverty that said UN believed to only exist in the worst case scenarios of 3rd World Countries. The problem is THAT bad…
God I hope there’s an afterlife, that may be the only way any of us see true freedom… escaping reality itself.
Oh here in America they have to hold a job. If they work really hard they may even make a few dollars a day
It all goes to the company store.
Well after they’re done shaking down your loved ones too. It’s ok together you can all theoretically scrape together enough to keep you fed
They can
“It’s not like you can decide to not be incarcerated”
You can though…
Isn’t the US famous for their prison for profit, where prisons are privately owned and states need to pay if there are fewer incarcerated people inside?
To me, this sounds straight from 1984.
Yeah, the states is the most country with for-profit prisons, and not coincidentally incarcerates the 6th highest percentage of its population of any country, just about half a percent of the total population at any time, or somewhere under 2 million people.
But boy howdy, do those percentages change when you control for economic class and ethnicity.
It’s less than ten percent of federal prisons. Police unions (including correctional officers) have a greater impact.
System of a down - Prison song.
Someone actually copied and pasted the lyrics here somewhere, if you go looking.
https://lemmy.world/comment/9798055
There
it’s sad and conspicuous that all of the reasons you hear about these days that would actually justify going out and killing terrible people mostly all involve things the American government has done or permitted. Truly the driving force for evil in the world.
They’re barely a 200-year-old country; relevant for roughly 80 of those years, the states are not the ultimate driving force of anything, and certainly not a vague concept like evil.
This specific issue is a failing on part of its citizenry, in company of many failings, but the country is not a static moment in time defined by its failings.
I read the wiki page. Pretty barebones, but it did link to https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34705968
In theory, I could entertain an argument about having criminals repay some of the costs of dealing with them, that’s not what’s going on here.
The sum that is able to be collected doesn’t go straight into the county coffers, either - the jail contracts with a company
The jail gets 30%, the company gets 70%.
It really just looks like just another way to exploit prisoners for profit.
Yeah, that’s what the Rutgers article at the bottom of my post was for, more context.
There is no doubt that the prisons are using pay for stay as an excuse to hoover up more money from the most vulnerable populations.
In Utah, you get charged fees by the day if you’ve been charged and/or convicted of a misdemeanor. No charge if it’s a felony. They figure they’ll get their moneys worth if the inmate goes to work at Utah Corrections Industries.
Even if you’re just charged, or you have to be convicted and in prison?
The US is starting to sound made up
I left America over a decade ago due to a laundry list of grievances that I developed while having only ever lived in America.
Once I started living in other countries, I finally developed context to compare my American life with. And it just made things look so much worse than I had previously thought.
And now it feels like not a day can go by without learning some new awful truth about my former home.
Where did you go, if you don’t mind me asking? It’s certainly something we’ve talked about…
I hopped around Southeast Asia until I landed in Japan.
It’s not easy here, and it’s not without its own problems, but it works much better for me.
(I’d probably still be in Singapore were it not for the heat. The food is 10/10 and dirt cheap, but I missed seasons.)
Do you have to struggle with the insane only work, no life, salary man/woman problems? Or did you find something that doesn’t follow that “life style?”
No, I see it but I don’t have to deal with it.
It’s also not as much of a constant as it used to be.
It’s unfortunate you left… When good people leave, we’re stuck with more of the bad gaining power.
If we lose this country to the bad people even more than it’s already been lost, then the entire world may pay dearly as a result.
If he left a solid red or blue state, it doesn’t really matter. Our minority representation, first pst the pole voting and electoral college means that a lot of smart people from cities or solid blue areas can leave and nothing will change.
Plus OP’s an outlier, most of us can’t afford to relocate like this.
It’s called the American Dream because you’ve got to be asleep to believe it
I honeatly think that a lot.
It was. Everywhere was.
Yes, but the more I live and hear things about the states it starts to sound like satire or as if it’s a joke to see what other people will believe.
You’re just getting older, haha. The longer we live, the more we can’t help seeing what’s right in front of us.
If only that were true for everyone.
I’d like to believe that. Social Media did a great job of reprogramming people.
Media did a great job before that, and humans tend to get conservative as they age, so I think there’s a lot of factors working together to make people more cynical than they ought to be.
Believe it or not if you can’t pay… straight to jail
And then if you can’t pay after you get out, they’ll sue you. I can’t find evidence that you’ll go back to jail, but I’m sure it’s happened.
Lol at those citations. low bar.
I thought last I heard about this that the bills for this weren’t usually called for payment unless you were suing them for something. Could be mistaken
The very idea is absurd. It is so counter productive to the idea of rehabilitation. The prisons themselves say they aren’t a significant revenue stream. Trying to offset the cost of a societal need by charging fees to prisons doesn’t even make any sense. And the companies that are tasked with collecting this debt get 70% of what they collect which means that even the argument about offsetting the state’s cost doesn’t make sense.
It’s profit seeking, counter productive cruelty and that’s it. Just shameful.
Trying to offset the cost of a societal need by charging fees to prisons (sic) doesn’t even make any sense.
Sure it does. It costs $$$ to build jails and prisons and more $$$ to run them. Why should I, the victim, have to pay twice? (once for my car, which the thief stole, and again in my taxes to fund the legal system once the thief is caught)
I can very much entertain an argument like that (counter-argument, pay prisoners minimum wage for whatever work they do and charge the $20/day from that).
But that’s not what’s going on here.
This is about a collection agency figuring out how to profit from a captive audience. It deserves the same regard from us as prison phone operators do.
It’s really just another form of predatory bullshit.
The prisons themselves say they aren’t a significant revenue stream
This is crucial here, IMO. We could put whatever we want on the bills – hell, we could charge a million dollar fee for each sentence! That would fix the funding problems – but the simple truth is that most of the prisoners don’t have the money.
Back on my day prison was a nickle and we liked it.
But the important thing was to tie an onion on your belt, as it was the style at the time.
