is the man or bear thing rhetorically or optically the perfect feminist meme that is beyond criticism? no.
but is it leaps and bounds better at getting men to understand the material consequences of patriarchy on the physical and emotional health of women than that stupid “kill all men” meme from last decade? definitely.
I’m so glad to see this posted. The whole meme of bear vs man made me feel at odds and while I saw what the point was that it tried to raise it still didn’t really do a great job to me. After a lot of thinking about it and discussing it in other threads I finally understood what I feel is the issue. While the answer given by most (if not all) women is shocking and shows the feeling of uncertainty and unsafeness the question is framed in such a way that it creates division and sexism. The problem is not what women are answering, the issue is that it puts men on the other side without any more thought. It divides us into women vs either men or bears. I’m not a woman, I’m not a bear, and I don’t want to be a man seen as a danger. I understand the issue and I want to be part of the solution and create a safer world for everyone.
This whole topic wouldn’t have made me see the problem if it wasn’t for the effect that other ways to raise awareness have had in the past. For me the greatest method to raise awareness was the #metoo movement. That’s when I could see the issue and what kind of effect it has. It was a movement that didn’t automatically make me feel excluded, it was a movement that raised awareness of the victims, but it didn’t have to be only women, also men that had been victims could raise it if they felt empowered by it. It was horrifying seeing the spread of it, and then there must be all the ones that didn’t say anything. That’s a movement I can get behind, that’s the way to raise awareness. Since then I try to be more aware of the kind of behavior that creates those feelings of unsafeness for women and if I would ever notice something done by others I’d try to step up. The whole man vs bear is terrible at doing the same.
Reading bell hooks back in the day made me interested in understanding feminism. Things like the bear makes me go do other things and care less.
easy solution is to read bell hooks today too :)
You know, that’s a good idea.
Things like the bear makes me go do other things and care less.
Isn’t that sort of the joke? Had the original social impulse to “I’d rather meet a bear in the woods than a man” been to just shrug and walk away, virtually nobody here would have known the comment was made.
Sadly, more people want to engage with random internet rage-bait and pseudo-sociology than a fact-based, logically laid out research and policy report.
I guess. It invoked some emotion for sure, something that research and policies usually don’t. For me, I still don’t know what to do differently. I’ve heard the statistics and it’s scary and sad. I want women to be safe and equal and all that. But what’s the plan here, which path leads to a different world? Does it help if I just sit around and feel bad about myself? I don’t think so. It just alienates me from half of the human population. But what actually helps? The message I receive is mostly just “feel bad about yourself.”
But what’s the plan here, which path leads to a different world?
It helps when people aren’t chronically alienated from one another. Growing up in a big family or in a neighborhood where you’ve got friends all along the block helps people to get to know and empathize with one another at an early age. You get to move through your moody adolescent phase surrounded by peers and see the real social consequences of being an asshole up front, rather than having anonymous channels through which you can vent your worst impulses without consequence.
But what actually helps?
Real actual socializing with other human beings. Empathy is just another kind of muscle. You gotta use it if you want to do any kind of heavy lifting. Otherwise, the occasional emotional contact with another person feels impossibly hard.
But what’s the plan here, which path leads to a different world?
Do you really think someone’s going to have the answer to a question like that from a bear vs man meme lemmy thread?
One of the things I find so irritating about social media is that people pretend like we can use it to solve all of the world’s issues when in obvious reality if you think about it for a moment it’s just a time wasting spot for people to go chatter about things (and apparently get big angry a lot of the time).
Social media is a snake eating its own tail, or perhaps more accurately, a thing that disappears up its own butthole.
It’s similar to how Hollywood perceives itself at awards shows as being the center of the universe. Changing the world into a better one isn’t making a movie that blows peoples’ minds, having a music festival, and it (to an even lesser extent) isn’t writing up a catchy Lemmy / Mastodon / Facebook / Xitter / Blog post.
These things can be inspiring. Creativity is fun, and media can feel cathartic to the audience…but ultimately media in and of itself tends to change very little.
I feel like this exchange from 30 Rock is relevant here:
I forget the exact context for the scene, but Kenneth disagrees with Jack and objects that he [Kenneth] is also a white man. Jack corrects him that he is not and is, socio-economically speaking, an inner-city Latina.
Jack represents the patriarchy/ruling money class in the show.
i believe you but if anyone can link the scene that would be dope as im a little lost 😅
I remember it now. Dunno if I can link to the scene or not. It’s one of the episodes Fey had pulled because they used race-changing makeup.
The plot is Tracy and Jenna were arguing whether it was more difficult to be a black man or a woman. So Tracy uses make up and a wig to dress like a white woman (except for his hand which was a monster claw because they ran out of makeup after he insisted they paint his buttocks). Jenna, meanwhile, uses makeup and a wig to look like a black man. Hijinks ensue.
This scene is when Jack steps in to settle it and says it’s actually harder to be a white man. That’s when this clip starts.
Synopsis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believe_in_the_Stars
in a critical situation like this, finding another human at all is probably riskier than any animal.
most animals will just fuck off while humans will remember you and find a way to fuck you for their gain. all that in a smart way that you wont be able to stop with just a pointy stick or something.
If I was lost in the woods, a human would be more likely to have cell phone service or know the way out. And realistically, it’s just going to be some hiker or birder, which from what I’ve seen are generally welcoming groups.
i was thinking more of a survival type situation, but in most cases you are probably right.
most animals will just fuck off while humans will remember you and find a way to fuck you for their gain.
I gotta disagree. In my experience, most humans will also fuck off.
But its a numbers game. We meet a lot of humans and some of them provoke intense experiences that are deeply memorable. However, we almost never meet any bears.
Honestly most humans will be centered at escaping the forest if they don’t know where to go, or guiding you out if they do. That’s it.
Also, you are in a forest. It is expected to see wild animals, it is unexpected to see humans. If you were in a seemingly empty office, would you rather see another person or a fucking bear?
Who draws these wojacks?
The hacker known as 4chan.
Who is this “Fourchan?”
Bottom left might be one of my favourite wojaks yet. I love all the different depictionsof this meme!!
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wojak
A legit interesting history.
What?
context, sorry
did i stutter or
edit: im literally a selfish dumbass sorry. added context to the body text :)
Or just not actually give the context of the original meme.
OOPS ur right that was shortsighted of me
Lol, you’re ridiculous
If I said ‘I would rather drink poison than go into work today’ would you calle ridiculous and do I even know how bad poisoning would hurt or even kill me?
Or would you understand that I was just voicing my dissatisfaction with having to go into work?
All I can do is grin and shake my head when they choose a bear lol
Not all men are ferocious animals. But all bears are ferocious animals.
This is where you should probably pause and listen to the reasoning they are giving. Here is one:
Reasons varied from “The worst the bear will do is kill me,” to “At least I know the bear wants to kill me,” with a general theme seeming to be that whatever tangible threat the bear posed was preferable to the uncertainty of wondering whether or not a random man would assault them.
I understand. The way I’m seeing it is, even if it’s a 50/50 chance, she may be able to fend for herself… a bear? What? 90% chance (bears normally try to stay away from humans until you enter their territory) and she’s definitely not just going to die, but she’s going to be ripped to shreds, not to mention the type of damage a bear’s jaw can do. Easily crush bones.
I mean I get it, in uncivilized civilizations, there’s going to be some really chitty people, and chitty men are far more dangerous. So women are going to fear men in general.
Rape culture means that women who survive SA often have to go through a hellish psychosocial process wherein they must convince cops, judges, juries, friends and family that they were not “asking for it.”
This is not me talking, this is something that has been expressed to me by multiple individuals. That they would rather undergo horrific mutilation by an animal than deal with that process.
I encourage you not to laugh, but to actually self-interrogate what this means. Because so far you have only expressed that you do not, in fact, understand.
You haven’t gotten the idea behind all this, like not at all. You seem to be a good person though so please continue figure things out, we all are.
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Antisexism is for everyone.
Feminism inherently centers on the issues of women, it’s in the name, and anything that it solves for men is collateral.
We need to hear both women and men if we want actual solutions that work for all sides.
Let’s stop this division. It’s time to ditch this “women against the men’s system” in favor of “how can we be good to each other, and what we don’t know of each other’s struggles”
And for now, the popular post considering the men’s perspective was just nuked. Probably for daring to consider the other side of this.
We have this. It’s called Intersectionality and we still get yelled at over it lol.
Kinda, yes, but when we talk about intersectionality, normally it’s in the context of intersectional feminism, still.
It gets about all sorts of discriminations against women of various backgrounds, not just all people with said backgrounds. Which screws it up even more.
Antisexism is for everyone.
And for now, the popular post considering the men’s perspective was just nuked. Probably for daring to consider the other side of this.
The two genders
How’s that contradictory to you?
I said that antisexism is the actual word for describing the system of fighting discrimination of people of all genders, and we should strive for that.
We should consider male perspective along with the female look at the issue. And the former is intensively shushed.
It’s no use pretending feminism is there to care for men - if anything, women are still the centerpiece of the movement, as they always were, and it’s reflected in the name and values of it.
If you do care for men, however, maybe you should listen to the things men say on the issue, without shutting them up and then saying “oh, we care for you as well”.
“We should listen to both genders”
No problem here.
“We should consider the male perspective”
Sure.
“FeMiNiSm bAd!”
And that’s where you lose it. You’re saying both genders need to be listened to, then rejecting Feminism because it’s women being listened to.
Nope, I didn’t say “feminism bad” either.
I said feminism is about women, not men, and what it gives to men is collateral, not the goal.
Thereby, we need a wider antisexist framework to address issues of both women and men, and to solve issues that are two-sided by nature - gender relations often being the example.
If you want men to “become better”, you have to understand what factors make them “bad”, and how it works in their mindset. And for that, you have to delve into men’s issues. You should also demonstrate willingness to partner and reciprocate with men, and help them fight gender stereotypes, unfair treatment, and other things that women often face too.
Men, on the other hand, should join women in the initiatives that matter, and learn more about the struggle of women.
