- Microsoft removes guide on converting Microsoft accounts to Local, pushing for Microsoft sign-ins.
- Instructions once available, now missing - likely due to company’s preference for Microsoft accounts.
- People may resist switching to Microsoft accounts for privacy reasons, despite company’s stance.
The triumphant return of the NETWORK COMPUTER!!! On your screen… sorry, OUR screen if you install or upgrade to Win-dows 11.
We have more local computing power than ever, but getting more and more chained to online services. Ah, the irony
Can someone ELI5 why the us goverment is doing nothing against these anti consumer practises
The US government isn’t gonna do anything like this unless it causes a huge fuss. The agencies responsible don’t get enough funding to properly regulate the stuff they’re supposed to, and they have to prioritize as a result.
I’m sure companies know this very well. Our rights as consumers have been slowly decaying for years, and we haven’t seen much government action until recently.
Money
the better to farm your information to advertise too you and try to tie you in to more subscriptions.
Here’s an updated way to bypass it. This Youtuber is a little cheerful-cheesy, but the info is good.
No. This does not need a 13-minute video.
- Don’t plug in ethernet if you’re using one.
- At the wifi setup stage press
shift-F10 - Type
oobe\bypassnro - Reboot. Proceed as normal.
There, saved you 13 minutes
Oh cool, Cunningham’s Law in action.
Boooo Microsoft Windows
Honest question: What does Microsoft expect people with no Internet access to do?
People with no internet access obviously don’t exist.
They added telemetry. 100% of responses had internet access.
That’s just science.
Microsoft learned the right lesson, everyone has internet! \s
Afaik, it’ll just use a cached login
They’re poor…fuck 'em, who needs them!?
This is the actual, real, subpoena-the-emails-you’ll-find-it answer.
I guarantee some smarmy PM said it in Teams when a developer asked this question.
When I bought my Windows 11 laptop a month ago, I was able to set up a local account after turning on airplane mode. (I had entered my wifi password in an earlier step since I thought it was just for installing updates.)
Recently set up my Win 11 gaming pc and despite being tech savvy, I couldn’t get around the requirement without googling. I needed to run a fucking command in order for the Windows installer to let me create an offline account. That’s just so scammy. Imagine paying money for Windows.
“Imagine people paying for Windows.” You had me up to the point that you explained why Microsoft might want to get rid of local accounts. You’re doing the thing that gives executives the idea of forcing online connectivity.
Just bought a ROG Ally. It’s my first forced use of 11 and the device is great, however Windows has never been more of a pain in the ass.
You enjoy using it? Any gripes? How’s it compared to Steam Deck? Why did you decide to get it over Steam Deck?
Honestly, Windows is my only gripe. I did choose knowing it because I wanted not only Steam access, but xbox cloud/gamepass and any other launcher. When using the built in Armory Crate software, which is their custom gaming software, it runs great, almost flawless. The software toggles for framerate limits, refresh rates etc is really well done.
Hardware wise, it’s light which I love, the screen is really solid and audio actually is impressive. I know fully cranked specs will drain the battery quite quick. So far though with stardew valley and Xbox cloud, I’ve been surprised at battery life, and haven’t felt a need for an external battery yet.
Plus I paid less than the cheapest Steam Deck despite me getting the 512gb version too.
I’ll just wait until Windows 10 reaches EOL. My expectative is that, by then, someone has created an ISO with the option of offline accounts enabled or Microsoft just gave up with this nonsense. IrIf not, I have Nobara already set up in dual boot. Proton is getting better and better by the day, anyway.
When you realize that micro$quash has never not been incredibly scammy and skeezy from the get-go, the modern business landscape makes more sense.
Also, every day is a good day to leave microsoft behind forever.
Remove Ethernet or internet. They cannot force you to sign in if you literally can’t. Anybody who doesn’t want to and yes they recently removed it from the system so fuck windows and Microsoft for continuously being the shittiest and most popular OS but this is impossible to circumvent so it’s 100% foolproof for offline accounts. The only way is if they gave you a local database of every account but that would be stupid as shit.
IIRC you are required to connect to internet to continue the setup process in newer versions.
Antarctica too? What about people who don’t have internet?
It also feels like their insistence is doing nothing but hurting them. The average consumer who doesn’t know the difference between a local account and a Microsoft account won’t know or care about MS doing this.
But the users who do have a preference and do want a local account are just going to be irritated at it and give them bad press. They’ll eventually figure out how to make a local account anyway and it may be the push they need to migrate off of Windows.
Switch to Linux where all accounts are local accounts.
Linux supports network accounts of all kinds.
They even have a guide for that! https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install
Linux supports network accounts of all kinds.
I didn’t say it didn’t support network accounts, but you have to have a local account set up to sign into those network accounts. You can set up your computer fully without being connected to the internet and it won’t give you grief about it.
you have to have a local account set up to sign into those network accounts.
I’m pretty sure that’s false. You can create an account right from OS install that is backed by something like LDAP (assuming you don’t count the root user as an “Account”)
I had very modest needs for Windows. It was not my primary computing device, but there was one application that I ran on an older laptop all the time. All the recent drama pushed me to investigate a bit and I learned that the app is also on Linux. I was able to wipe and install Linux Mint easily despite not really knowing much about either OS. There are a lot of guides on youtube about the process that helped make it easy. Laptop is running well so far. I’m also using this as as a test to see if I can replace much of my Apple stuff with Linux as those devices start to age out. Thanks for the little push Microsoft.
UpperBroccoli really wants Microsoft gone after it pisses him off everyday for years
The Microsoft cycle:
Microsoft does thing nobody likes -> people complain -> some people threaten to switch to Linux -> a few of those people do but most people don’t -> They make some excuse and claim that once Linux reaches some arbitrary milestone they’ll switch (Adobe support, better game support, better software support, etc) -> most of those people forget (they’re a minority, the vast majority of people never cared) -> Microsoft notices and they became even more emboldened to make their products worse -> repeat
If you want change then you need to break the cycle
I was at the make excuses stage until late last year when my excuses were fixed. Booted my windows install maybe four times since then, and that was mostly to grab files from it haha.
Some people like you and I actually switch to Linux, but we’re the 4% and we need to remember that.
It used to be about 1%, so actually huge gains have been made
I did manage to switch to Linux. I can understand though why people are hesitant, there are still things that are tough in Linux, or near impossible in some cases. That’s despite having used Linux on and off for years.
That’s because what people need to understand is that fundamentally Linux is not a drop in replacement for Windows, its not some open source copy. It’ll never have full software compatibility, it’ll never run the same, it’ll never look exactly the same, and it’ll never be the same. The sooner people accept that the sooner people understand what their options are. For me that’s an advantage, I like the UI on DEs like Cosmic, I love the Unix filesystem, I love the terminal and how powerful it is, I love package managers, and I love the customizability of it all.
I don’t think something needs to be identical to Windows to be a good replacement for it. I think there should be a replacement for Windows, and distributions like Linux Mint are that replacement for some people.
I also think that parts of the Linux ecosystem have major problems. Not necessarily problems with the kernel itself, but problems with the surrounding software like programs and user interfaces. Wider application support would be a start. Some distributions and parts of modern Linux systems can be unnecessarily complex or downright esoteric. Some features like HDR have very poor support, and are difficult to enable/setup where they are supported. It’s also difficult for developers to publish to Linux because of the wide variety of different Linux systems. Flatpaks and snaps help with this obviously but have divisive in the Linux community for one reason or another.
It’s also difficult for developers to publish to Linux because of the wide variety of different Linux systems.
I disagree there. The issue is that in Windows people bring over their own version of libraries they compiled on (the millions of .dll files) and you can even look in your Uninstall Apps settings where there’s a bunch of MS specific runtime bundles to see that’s even an issue in the MS ecosystem.
In Linux, developers have relied on the library versions just being there. It is, I’d argue, the most compelling reason package managers basically had to come into existence. On the flip-side this can cause issues where there is some version on the system by the package manager that replaces another version. And something not a part of that package management system isn’t a part of those dependency checks and if they don’t put the libraries with the binaries…well it is just luck if you have them all or if other versions can support those library calls in the same way still.
In Linux that is all those .so’s in /var/lib and stuff.
You don’t really see many proprietary things using package managers and those that do are packaged by someone else and are in some sort of repo that isn’t part of the vanilla install because of legal caution.
Companies that made their money on porting games to Linux prior to Proton basically causing them to shutter Linux porting would put their .so’s in with the game bundle themselves, just like you see happening in Windows when .dll’s are inside the actual program’s folders.
However, the more that this sort of dependency management has become abstracted by development suites that take care of this for the developers, the less they understand about it.
Flatpaks actually take care of this and it is one reason they are so popular. They figure out (well that’s a simplification) those library dependencies, sandbox the apps with those dependencies so the library paths don’t interfere with other flatpaks or the base system itself. People complain about this as a con because “the download is BIGGER” even though flatpak doesn’t install the same runtimes over and over again, so once they are there, the download may still be bigger but the installed storage isn’t.
Anyway, yes Linus Torvalds complained about the “Linux fragmentation” issue but it was about DE’s not the state of the development ecosystem itself as I recall, though the rant is very old, so maybe I don’t remember all of it.
Wider application support would be a start.
Sure, but that’s not a Linux problem, that’s a developer problem. Linux supports application development just fine. It is a kernel and the surrounding ecosystem is the operating system after all. It is developers that don’t support it. That isn’t really something Linux in and of itself can effectively solve. Users have to increase and developers supporting applications for Linux will also increase. The classic Linux Chicken and the Egg problem but it is capitalism and that’s just going to be how it has to work.
I don’t think something needs to be identical to Windows to be a good replacement for it.
I said drop in replacement
Wider application support would be a start.
No organization is willing to pay companies to support Linux
Some distributions and parts of modern Linux systems can be unnecessarily complex or downright esoteric. Some features like HDR have very poor support, and are difficult to enable/setup where they are supported.
That’s because organizations like the Linux foundation primarily serve enterprise and server customers, they only need a good enough UI so that’s what desktop users get. Nobody is paying money for Linux and few people donate.
It’s also difficult for developers to publish to Linux because of the wide variety of different Linux systems. Flatpaks and snaps help with this obviously but have divisive in the Linux community for one reason or another.
That’s because the current system allows distribution maintainers to decide if they want their distro to be bleeding edge or stable.
TLDR: Desktop Linux users get the scraps of enterprise and server Linux
No organization is willing to pay companies to support Linux
Well that’s a lie. Lots of companies use Linux servers, Linux embedded devices, even Linux desktops for programmers or engineers. Android devices are everywhere too.
That’s because organizations like the Linux foundation primarily serve enterprise and server customers, they only need a good enough UI so that’s what desktop users get. Nobody is paying money for Linux and few people donate.
One of the most common uses of Linux is smartphones. Chromebooks are also fairly popular. It’s more that the kind of people that use Linux desktops aren’t happy with smartphone like functionality and customisation.
The better question is why aren’t people supporting desktop Linux? We have increasing market share after all. My guess is a combination of fragmentation and the fact that the user base aren’t the kind of people they want to sell too. It’s hard to sell MS Office for Linux to your average Linux enthusiast who might even be an Open Source purist. They are also more likely to jailbreak or pirate your product.
Well that’s a lie. Lots of companies use Linux servers, Linux embedded devices
I mentioned that
even Linux desktops for programmers or engineers. Android devices are everywhere too. One of the most common uses of Linux is smartphones.
They make money because they’re proprietary, sell peoples info, and because of that they represent everything the free software movement fights against. I use Linux because it supports the free software movement, not the other way around.
The better question is why aren’t people supporting desktop Linux?
It’s a combination of a few factors, developers are pressured into not asking for donations (users need to actively find their website to donate), the vast majority of Linux software is free of price, and people don’t want to pay money for their operating system.
It’s a combination of a few factors, developers are pressured into not asking for donations (users need to actively find their website to donate), the vast majority of Linux software is free of price, and people don’t want to pay money for their operating system.
I am talking about businesses supporting the Linux desktop with software, not about the OS devs themselves.
They make money because they’re proprietary, sell peoples info, and because of that they represent everything the free software movement fights against. I use Linux because it supports the free software movement, not the other way around.
This is the reason why most businesses don’t want to support Linux.
Some of us manage to break the cycle, but despite how much I love Linux (ups and downs) I understand that it isn’t for everyone currently.
What most people want is a stable system they can just use without understanding much if anything about how the underlying systems work. They don’t care that wifi drivers can be fixed through a few terminal commands, they rail against the fact they have to do much of anything at all besides click [Next >]. And I can’t blame them; that’s what Microsoft has trained them for.
So many people with random toolbars and junk extensions in their browsers because the [Next >] button is how they get past whatever problem they have. The average user isn’t very tech savvy, and it takes someone with a desire to learn to truly thrive in a Linux environment.
I’ve converted my mom to Kubuntu, and she does well, but she’s also an outlier (she has an expired CCNA certification).
Linux suffers from a catch 22: there’s not enough users because there’s not a lot of commercial support because there’s not enough users because… And the people who are donating their time to make it better are saints as far as I’m concerned, but there’s only so much people can do for free. Things truly have gotten better, but until more typical user types can adopt Linux with little to no fuss, not much will change.
And that fact hurts my soul.
The problem is the average user won’t use Linux unless it comes included with their PC.
The most important part of this is:
the vast majority of people never cared
We make our happy little bubble her to be outraged in. The world at large carries on without caring. Just in the past few years, there’s been the Reddit API change, the WhatsApp ToS change, the YouTube dislike button removal, etc etc. A small minority (like us) complains endlessly. The rest of the world shrugs and accepts enshitification.
People have accepted that they’ll never have privacy, that they dont own the products they purchase (physical or digital), that not only do they not control their technology but fundamentally their technology controls them, that every few years they’ll have to replace their devices or the manufacturer stops supporting them, people own nothing and are happy.
People don’t know and don’t care. Privacy isn’t an issue on anyone’s mind (just like climate wasn’t 20 years ago). People don’t know or care about digital media ownership issues.
People know, they see their digital media being removed from them and they know that their devices spy on them. Everyone talks about it yet nobody cares.
I disagree. I think it’s more helplessness than apathy.
I don’t approve of all the spying, but I don’t “own” any congress critters, so what can I do? I can’t even opt out of the spying by cancelling my Internet plan and smashing my phone – there’s still tracking through CCTV, face recognition, license plate scanners, etc. I’d have to move to some remote middle of nowhere and live as a subsistence farmer – and even on the way there, I’d be thoroughly tracked. There’s no escape, it’s like we’re all in a giant digital cage.
the stupid thing is I still have my children and I adding our MS accounts after creating the local accounts, because I like setting the parental limits once for all the computers. I just can’t stand the stupid email-based usernames it creates when signing into the MS account during account creation.
Back in my day you could turn on the computer and operate it without anyone knowing. Our “internet connection” was demonic screeching from hell on the telephone and you didn’t need it to play solitaire.
Microsoft world have done it back then if internet was more prevalent and computers were just a little faster.
Linux exists. Made for you, not money. For Microsoft user experience is just a side effect in getting profit. It can well be replaced with marketing, as Microsoft has demonstrated.
There isn’t a soul on lemmy that doesn’t know Linux exists
What about the people that don’t have a soul
Even gingers use Linux.
Can confirm, I’m ginger.
I sold mine to Odin and even I know about it. Now if youll excuse me I need to throw axes at people who dont like poetry or flyting.
At this point, the quicker people switch, the easier it will be for them.
You can learn linux today or you going to learn it next year. Choice is yours.
You seem to be implying that most people CAN learn linux. I’ve tried for 10 years now, on 4 different ossasions.
I don’t get it. I WANT TO get it…I don’t get it. But I also don’t want Windows 8, Windows 10, or Windows 11 especially.
…so I just stay on Windows 7.
And before anyone gives me flack about security, I’m not even 100% sure my firewall is on. I tinkered with it about 8 years ago, I don’t remember if I turned it back on, or left it off.
I THINK I might have AVG free anti-virus, from like 10 years ago…I honestly can’t tell you the last time I ran it.
People won’t switch to linux until the Android of PC distros comes out. The one that you can install programs by downloading a file. If thats .apk, fine. If it’s .exe, fine. Just as long as the process goes “go to website, download file, double click file, get gui for installation process…terminal? What’s terminal? Oh no, are you sick?”
Now on android, you CAN still use terminal, but I would guess that less than 1% of its userbase knows what that is.
Since a corporation wrote the first version of Android, and since Linux is something like 40 years old…but has never even attempted this approach on pc, I’m left to believe that the people who write these distros for free are actively against the idea of linux being adopted by the masses.
So no…people won’t “learn it now, or learn it next year”. They’ll just suffer through whatever bullshit microsoft says. And thats going to affect the world. Because now microsoft will have a worldwide network of spying on EVERYONE. (Except those on mac or linux, which is like 15% of the pc market)
When was last time you used Linux? Flatpak?
Many of these issue are resolved it seems.
Also, you are acting like windows never has any issues. If you just need to open browser and surf web, they work about the same.
But yeah, we sometime off before grandmas should be put on it. But any middle aged person can use it now imho
I don’t know what flatpack is…so I assume before that? Last time I intensely tried to get into it, was about 4 years ago. I tried not so intensely last year to turn my raspberry pi’s fan on. It is off, I want it on. Instead of a physical switch I could just flick, they decided to get fancy with it, and require terminal to turn it on. It USED TO work, but in order to fix an unrelated problem, I updated the system, and that broke everything. Now when you try to run the command it gives an error.
And the difference between Windows having an error, and Linux having an error, is if I have a problem on windows, I can type “Windows 7, (problem here), reddit”. It will give me a detailed set of instructions that tell me what to do. But with linux, I can find a set of instructions on how to fix the problem, and it always goes “first update everything. Now, do these commands in terminal.” The only problem is, linux is so fractured into so many different layouts and structures, and the help guides always assume your system is the exact same as their system, that you end up getting an error code. Now if you know linux, you know what commands to do to change/fix things. If you’re like me, you see some bullshit like “partician not registried”, and you have no idea what to do with that. So you google it, find 15 different answers. And with each one you try, you just make things worse and worse.
The difference between niave and stupid is that niave people haven’t been taught things. Stupid people can’t learn things. I’m linux stupid, and I would say the vast majority of people are linux stupid. However, despite how fractured Android is, I would say most people are either Android smart, or Android niave. With the difference being if they’ve ever used Android. I’ve never seen someone use Android for a day, and say “I can’t figure out how to set the video driver above 320x240p”. Or figure out why there’s no sound. Or figure out why the whole screen is tinted blue. Or why they can’t turn a fan on.
Linux users have this belief that “oh, everything is easy for me, so it must be easy for everyone”. What they don’t realize is how hard it is to get help running linux. Imagine a blind guy going to a french guys house, and asking where they keep their screwdriver. There’s no standard place. Mine is in my silverware drawer behind the hammer. But if I speak french, and you do not, if you’re blind how would you ever even know where my silverware drawer is, in a house you’ve never been? How would you even ask for help?
That’s the linux experience for me. Nothing works. I can’t fix anything. And the attempts at help I get just make things worse, because they expect my system to be like their system. And it’s not.
Ubuntu is basically what you are describing.
I would say it is openSUSE Aeon.
An immutable distro that you install and it “just works”. Applications come in via the onboard Software Managerr (using Flatpack). It is almost impossible to break, as the system itself is write-only. If an update should break something, the OS rolls back itself. It can do this, because it’s basically updating what you’ll get after the next reboot, not the running system. If something goes wrong, it reboots to the working version.
Still in development, but super stable.
I tried it back in 2012. I hated it. Little icons on the side of the screen. No taskbar. Blech.
You tried it 12 years ago. So before Windows 8 came out? Think of how much Windows has changed in that time. Linux distros have changed as well, but they have focused on usability with each change.
