ASHLAND — Twenty-six Amish who refused to pay their fines for violating a law that requires flashing lights on their buggies appeared in court on Friday.
Once there, Ashland Municipal Court Judge John Good ruled out the possibility of jail time for them and instead said he would impose liens on their real estate.
People are so up in arms at the seeming contradiction of Amish using a light and a battery on their buggies.
Guess what: most Amish businesses have cell phones. If you drive through Amish country in Ohio, you will see dozens of people in Amish garb riding e-bikes.
I hate cars and judges, and frankly Ohio is a hellhole; but if some lights are going to make people safer it really isn’t going to be that big of a burden. If the judge says they have to do it, then their community elders will approve it, nbd.
None of you ever had Mennonite friends and it shows.
I think victim blaming is the problem here.
By victims I assume you mean unsuspecting drivers coming across a dark, unlighted vehicle in the road at night who could be injured or killed by an accident or swerving to avoid one, right?
If they can’t see a fucking cart with their headlights on, then what chance do they have of avoiding a cyclist or a pedestrian out for a walk?
Some people shouldn’t be allowed to drive.
They have a very good chance of seeing me while I’m cycling because I’m lighted. If I’m forced to walk on the road at night without a light I’ll stay out of the roadway when cars are coming. Doing otherwise would be stupid, just as stupid as driving an unlighted vehicle with a significant speed differential at night.
They should see you with only your reflectors. Headlight “safety” ratings have steadily improved since 2016. [https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/ranks-of-top-safety-pick-winners-swell-as-automakers-improve-headlights] I use the air-quotes as IIHS tests favor more light for the driver at the expense of glare for others.
In any case, if they can’t see you at night, then they need to slow down as the maximum speeds supported by current low beam technology is around 40-45 mph. Bicycles shouldn’t be on roads with such high prevailing speeds, 50 mph+. Rather they should be on a separate path. In that case the risk is far lower to the cyclist then what some flashing lights could’ve achieved.
Cyclists and pedestrians use lights + high-vis gear
What’s depressing is that now headlights are glaring LED supernovas, and yet drivers still can’t stop hitting things at night.
No, by victims we mean the people using a road in the way roads were used for centuries, completely legally. The ones being hit from behind by people in too much of a hurry to use proper caution in area where Amish frequently travel and they are not the only users of the roadway.
If I drive through a neighborhood with a “Children at Play” sign and run over a kid, I can 100% guarantee you that I am not the victim. That is some very cringe logic. The road exists first for pedestrians, secondly for non-motorized vehicles, and lastly… for automobiles.
They’re not using it legally, hence the legal proceedings.
It would be interesting if separate bicycle infra ever makes its way to that part of Ohio. I wonder how the buggies would be treated in that case? Would they be permitted to ride on the bike paths, or would they only be allowed on certain parts of the paths?
Well i assume the drivers used headlights at night so they can see where they’re going and if there are obstacles in the way.
The idea behind the typical Amish perspective on technology is to preserve community. Exceptions are sometimes made as necessary or reasonable, washing machines being one of the most popular exceptions. It seems to be working well for them.
Yeah, they can even use computers and Linux distros exist for the Amish.
I am looking at all the comments and sub comments and realizing almost all the people commenting don’t realize this is posted in fuckcars.
The entire point of this community is to point out how cars have screwed everyone else from using roads and paths that at times predated cars. Most major city’s could add good bike paths and lighten the traffic by using bikes or any other non vehicle option.
This is what happens when a large chunk of lemmy users browse via all.
The worst is when people come from all and post discriminatory comments in a group that is specifically meant as a support group for vulnerable people.
I hate cars, but I hate dumb arguments even more.
It’s fucking stupid. Anyone who can’t see an object in front of their car needs to have their license revoked.
Hey look, Ohio once again going the wrong direction, just like every city I’ve lived in does with bicycles.
Cars keep crashing into bicycles/Amish? Penalize the bicycles/Amish! How dare they intrude into what has ALWAYS been the domain of cars.
Man, fuck Ohio and fuck cars. If I could ride my bicycle to work every day I would.
Man, fuck Ohio
Clevelander here.
…yeah.
Condolences.
Good fishing, though! Just don’t set the river on fire. again.
Pssshhhh!!! Don’t tell me what to do!
- Non electric reflectors
- Change the roads and have separate roads for motorized and non motorized vehicles. Either put separate roads along them, widen the current ones
- Move the blame towards the damn people that crash into these buggies, as they obviously are not paying attention to the road
- Put more road lights. With LED and solar panels the installation cost for a simple light is pretty minimal nowadays.
- Make it a rule that they can not drive at night instead of forcing electric lights upon their buggies. If they still drive at night, they are responsible for their own well-being
People and especially government forget that these kind of rules and laws are meant to protect the people. But instead the people they are supposed to protect are fined, forced to go up to the judge, forced to defend themselves against something that other people are telling them they should be doing. They are now victims because somebody else is supposedly trying to protect them from being victims.
The last one is bullshit. They’re not putting themselves at risk, but others too.
It’s like saying the solution to DUI is to make it legal but they are responsible for their well-being.
Yes and i do think that should be the case. There are people that can drive better than other drivers even when they have a beer or a small amount of drugs in their system.
But then you should also be responsible for everybody’s wellbeing
Change the roads and have separate roads for motorized and non motorized vehicles. Either put separate roads along them, widen the current ones Put more road lights. With LED and solar panels the installation cost for a simple light is pretty minimal nowadays.
This is still expensive, impractical, and unrealistic for many rural towns. The last place I lived struggled for two months just to pull together the funds to spray for mosquitos because they already had plans to work on the town’s ditches.
Once there, Ashland Municipal Court Judge John Good ruled out the possibility of jail time for them and instead said he would impose liens on their real estate.
…
On Thursday, Good told them that while they may prefer jail, an Ohio Supreme Court case prohibits him jailing defendants that refuse to pay fines for non-jailable offenses.The State is going to steal their property and render them homeless for following their religion, as if that’s somehow better than a short jail term.
It’s the American way
Good luck with that, the Amish have more money then they know what to do with. This is just a cash grab.
Their religion is causing danger to other drivers. If their religion is that important they can not use the roads.
Nah, that’s car-supremacist bullshit. There are any number of unlit things that could be in the road that automobile drivers have a responsibility to watch out for: pedestrians, cyclists, deer, etc. The notion that a driver could smash into something because they were driving too fast for the throw of their headlights and somehow not be 100% responsible for it is ridiculous blame-shifting.
There are other things too, but as long as there are safety rules for vehicles a religious exemption is moronic. Safety is safety.
Fuck religious-supremist exemptions from valid* public safety requirements.
*Visibility for safety, pandemic distancing and mask requirements in public, etc. are valid. Mask bans are not valid for anyone, so there shouldn’t even be a reason for religious exemptions to come up.
I hate cars, but I hate getting stuck behind the Amish even more. Doesn’t mean they need to get hit by cars, but their religion is fucked up to a degree most people don’t realize, especially when it comes to women.
Those buggies are straight up hazardous to people, including the people driving them
why flashing lights and not reflectors?
I believe they were already required to use reflectors. Back in the 80’s when I was sometimes in Ohio with my parents we used to pass Amish buggies sometimes, and they always had an orange triangle retroreflector thing on the back.
I’ve seen the Amish in Ohio in more recent years and I’m pretty sure I always saw one of those triangle retroreflectors on the back of the buggy.
I think this was NotTheOnion for a moment
Not as popular as his cousin Johnny B.
Too bad the Amish are anti-violence since the real way to fix this issue is not flashing lights but cleverly places shaped charges that go off toward whatever hits them. If you told this to drivers I think most would start looking for buggies with a bit more gusto.
Where did these buggies drive before there were paved roads designed and maintained for multi-ton haulers and passenger vehicles? 🤔
Gravel and dirt roads that were there before
Surely they were made without the multi-ton equipment that require paved roadways to use.
If I keep seeing people get hit on any of the poorly designed roads around me, I find a new path or make my own.
Sorry it works this way.
Maybe new paths could be forged. Something says you won’t be shoveling anything to help out. Enjoy being mad at the world.
Yeah sure, if there wasn’t productive farmland or other private property where these roads would be placed.
Unfortunately space like that exists, but it’s taken up by the paved roads…
I don’t know if you know this, but people get mad if you dig a road through their property.
those roads were still on state Right of Way, they’re competing for the same real estate
