I’ve seen around 3 occasions of that this week, altho I have never seen anything like it before.
if I remember correctly they were:
- smack talking a mod (FlyingSquid) for saying not to report the same comment twice, when they were different comments, and the report was spam
- someone comparing .world with .ml in politics (as in there was a comment saying "this post will be overrun with .ml people, and then a comment going “but you are from .world”) (Maybe Im part of the problem? I have been called out for being a fascist because I questioned the “puching nazis” theme)
- one more which I can’t remember.
Anyways, what is all that about? Are people really starting to hate on 50% of the lemmy population because of their instance?
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.world is the biggest instance and therefore a prime choice for trolls to create accounts. Most of the trash posts I’ve seen lately are from brand new users on lemmy.world
I am equally suspicious of brand new lemmy.world users as I am of veterans of lemmy.ml. Older accounts on .world are usually pretty normal.
This is why I chose lemmynsfw. No one doubts our intent
Also no downvotes :)
How’s it like living in fantasy-land where every single one of your opinions online is correct and you can never be wrong? (/s in case you’re incredibly dull.)
It’s so incredibly stupid to not have downvotes fucking hell.
A big number of instances don’t federate with lemmynsfw though, so there’s a lot of users who don’t see the messages of the users from that instance.
Thank the gods.
Your comment has been noticed and new bots are inbound. Close your doors.
I like to think of myself as normal lol
I’m here because kbin.social died and this was my next oldest account
I moved to fedia.io because it is basically kbin.social, but working.
I probably would have gone there, but I didn’t want to make another new account, so I just ended up falling back to one I already had.
Haven’t heard of the news. Do you mind telling me what happened to kbin?
The developer and admin, Ernest, went through a rough patch in his life. Development and server upkeep fell off during this time, and it wasn’t picked back up again. I don’t think anyone’s heard from him in a long while now, but I don’t really know.
lemmy.world is popular, which has its pros and cons. At least you didn’t pick hexbear lol
My first account in this place was on .ml because it was only them and beehaw at the time, and I ended up deleting it once controversy popped up lol
In my experience (hexbear and .ml instances excluded) the majority of trolls I encounter seems to be from either infosec.pub or blahaj.zone
Its an incredibly pro US biased instance despite not being hosted in the US and having a .world domain.
Greatest hits are politics@lemmy.world forbidding non-US topics and of course news@lemmy.world and its bias check bot according to which every non US media is left wing biased.
God that fucking bot.
The bot itself is only mildly offensive, but the fieflord bot-love is just repugnant.
About a month ago news did a “feedback about the bot” thing, in which they declared undying love for the bot above all things and declared any input other than breathless support for the bot to be vote manipulated misinformation.
There were about 3 mods involved, all contradicting each other, and themselves, very condescending, and very sooky and sulky. “One of the mods almost resigned over this!” kind of stuff.
You had to start every comment with “look I know you guys are doing your best and investing all your free time as volunteers but…”
Both should be blocked… It is DNC komissars run them subs
Imo the best mods/admins are the ones I don’t have to interact with and oh boy did I interact with the admins of .world
Nice way to phrase it 😄
It’s a battle of political ideologies.
ml is administered by the creators of Lemmy, they are openly socialist/communist/tankie depending on your own ideology, ml was chosen to represent Marxism-Leninism, and so the people it attracted are generally also adhering to this kind of ideologies.
.world was created for Redditors exile, as such, it is mostly center-left to social democrat.Political extremists tend to extremise everything, typically a tankie will call you a Nazi/fascist if you disagree with them. That’s one of your answer.
Secondly, some ml people are frustrated that Lemmy is not their own little thing anymore for them and their friends, as world is the biggest instance now by far. So they show some kind of instance-xenophobia, not much different from the Great Replacement theory: “we are being culturally replaced through mass migration”.
Not all .ml people are like that of course. In my experience, it is enough to block a few tankies to get back to civilized discussions.
I have had way more issues with .ml communities than .world
ML was basically designed to be an echo chamber, it’s right there in the name.
Everyone has. That place is a toxic shithole.
I haven’t.
give it more than 14 days.
A month so far. I mean, I’m pretty sure I probably said stuff that was ignorant of actual facts that showed up on other instances and could’ve been dv’d by, it argued over with them, it’s hard to say since my original instance went down and I generally try not to hold grudges, but as long as I’ve been consciously aware, I don’t recall any unpleasantness. But then I’m not going on their instances acting like I know everything just because I read it from a Western or US-centric source. All governments BS their citizens and we never really know to what extents, since *Assange, Snowden, Manning and a bunch of other whistle-blowers were heavily persecuted and prosecuted.
I have been corrected, with credible sources from Western-centric media and had my thinking challenged, but it wasn’t disrespectfully, as far as I was aware. They’re alright, I’ve had non -confrontational posts rm’d and been flamed for no good reason by mods and regulars on the biggest instance. Every other instance seems pretty decent, but that’s my own experience.
I mean… a toxic shithole? Really??
I think of it as more of a cancerous shithole.
A toxic, cancerous shithole of vapid pissfarts incessantly salivating on themselves while climbing over one another to be top edgelord in a community that will eternally fail to produce anything remotely resembling neither edge, nor lords.
I made the mistake of being an anarchist on ml and hexbear.
Waay, waaaaaay too many tankies getting insanely pissed off and swarm when you criticize (point out obvious facts, really) any non US/Western countries or allies along anarchist lines.
It rapidly devolves into idpol, rants and tirades that are barely related to the topic or comment, Fox News style ‘I’m just asking questions in good faith’ which are obviously not in good faith if you’re older than maybe 10.
I dare someone to go ml or grad or hex and attempt to have a serious and thorough conversation about the Sino-Vietnamese war. Or Uighurs. Or the Holodomor. Or whether the concept of self-determination applies to Ukraine, Taiwan, and Palestine at the same time.
I remember at one point explaining a meme that popped up on some China’s social media site that boiled down to ‘Deng Xiaoping’s reforms have led to Chinese women craving giant Black cocks’, and all of them being just fine with incels and racism when its not Westerners doing it.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin. Although that is more rare, it does happen.
EDIT: Its somewhat sad, as it is great fun when everyone is dogpiling on some new latest insane western neocolonialism or corporate incompetence/hellscape type stuff, but I treat those places like Ravenholm:
We don’t go there anymore.
Or whether the concept of self-determination applies to Ukraine, Taiwan, and Palestine at the same time.
That’s the hypocrisy that pisses me off the most. I don’t know how someone can support resistance by any means for Palestinians but seriously suggest Ukrainians are nazis for resisting an imperialist invasion.
PS: there’s at least 2 anarchist instances on Lemmy 😉
Slightly off topic, is db0 one of the anarchist instances you’re referring to? I know it’s a generally leftist instance, but don’t know much more detail than that
Yes, that’s my instance :) it’s run by anarchists and has an anarchist CoC and general vibe. slrpnk is the second.
I’m such a dunce, I didn’t spot your username 🤦
Thought I was asking a db0 random, not the NaN himself
I like db0 because it reminds of how cool the ‘you wouldn’t download a car’ commercials made piracy look. They were right, it is cool.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin. Although that is more rare, it does happen.
If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
The culture where these sorts of blatant lies are accepted without question is my biggest problem with .world. You can have whatever actual beliefs you want, but lying like this is really despicable.
Please show any sources for this garbage, these are all bannable offenses on Grad, Hexbear, and .ml.
Oh people have tried I’m sure. They are banned now.:-)
I’ve yet to see anyone in .world ban someone simply for having a political affiliation. The tankie communities flat-out ban for being “liberal.”
Granted, it’s been a while since I e seen this happen, the admins/mods there do not hide their bias.
Extremism :- (
“Nazis” flooding lemmy to replace the poor tankies (c. 2023):
lemmyworld in many ways is still just reddit. don’t get me wrong, I’ve talked to plenty of cool people on there before. but it is the biggest instance that ballooned after the API controversy and a lot of them seem to have just brought Reddit to the fediverse with them. I have no issues with any mods there, I’ve not really seen them at all. they did defed a community from my instance though so that’s pretty lame of them.
I beg to differ: even Reddit these days is little like Reddit, as it was just prior to the protests. Reddit f-ing died, and Lemmy.World is nothing like that shithole, especially what’s left nowadays with bots copying bots speaking to bots, allowing humans to simply scroll forever.
To any extent that it is like the Reddit of old though, yeah it’s just bc it’s so big. It was guaranteed that some instance would become that, bc people are people - at least here, not like AI-Reddit. 🤡
Not even close.
Some of the dumbest and most aggressive comments I’ve seen on Lemmy came from lemmy.world. Most comments on it seem OK, but it does have a reddit-like flavour with a good number of unpleasant users.
I am really somewhat surprised to hear that honestly. After Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net, the worst extremes I see by far come from lemmy.ml. Sort of a “when I see trolling this bad, then >90% of the time it is lemmy.ml”.
After that, yeah, lemmy.world has the largest absolute number of trolls on the Fediverse - you kinda expect some from any large instance, and they are definitely the largest by a wide margin! According to https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, they have >5-fold active users than anyone else. I presume that’s monthly. The next largest instance, is lemmynsfw.com, followed by Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.ml, etc. but each of those with 2-3k users compared to lemmy.world’s 17.2k. So the latter is bigger than many others (if not quite all of them) combined.
Trolls from lemmy.world I block individually, but lemmy.ml got so frustrating for me that I blocked the entire instance. I do not regret that in the slightest. It was that or quit Lemmy altogether. Lemmy.world though seems… “manageable”, i.e. not every person from it is worthwhile to talk to, but enough are that it’s worth blocking only the trolls while keeping the rest, imho.
Many of the .ml and Hexbear trolls have .world accounts as well
Yup. And if instances started defederating from lemmy.ml but not from lemmy.world, then even more accounts on the latter would be created as well. They - as they have continuously stated, publicly - really have zero interest in leaving people alone who simply don’t want to hear their shit.
Though the ones with Lemmy.world accounts cannot read posts on hexbear.net directly, so that’s a bit of a barrier.
I don’t hate LW, I even regularly post to a few LW communities. The sysadmins do a good job. There are a few debatable moderation decisions, but those are usually documented on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
The main issues I have with it is
- centralization of communities coupled with the current federation implementation creating 7-days delay for instance like aussie.zone (see !fedimemes@feddit.uk for a meme and discussion on that topic)
- their communities being the default means they can take controversial decisions and impact a topic for everyone until an alternative community emerges. See all the debates with the Media Bias Fact Checker bot, which in the end got removed from !world@lemmy.world (!globalnews@lemmy.zip for an alternative) but apparently it still on !politics@lemmy.world
- another consequence of centralization is impact of their being unavailable. People here might remember August 2023 when LW was under consistent DDoS attack, it was barely usable. This prevented a third of Lemmy total users to use Lemmy. Should they face a similar issue in the future, most of the Lemmy communities would be unusable.
Another point I haven’t seen mentioned is that they are still federated with Threads: https://fedipact.veganism.social/
They are the last large instance which still is.
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I have nothing against the wolders but the admins of that instance raise more than a few eyebrows. Particularly when they rolled back specific anti hate speech policies in favor of vague common sense ones to stay ahead of the anti-woke crowd.
Kind of feels like they have been trying to take over Lemmy. Which… Could be a lot worse but still rubs me the wrong way.
.world runs into issues because it’s overwhelmingly liberal and the mods are anti-Marxist on a platform built by Communists and dominated by leftists in general. They also defederated from the major Marxist instances. Lemmy.world is largely a replication of Reddit as well, so people leaving Reddit also don’t necessarily want that either.
It’s also by far the largest instance, not necessarily in a good way. It tends to dominate the fediverse and thus their mods and admins have an outsized voice, even if federation helps combat that issue.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world, you’ll get different answers if you asked on another community like Lemmy.ml’s AskLemmy.
Communists? Really? There is quite a gap between being leftist (which in itself is a term that generalizes multiple ideological position and political views. Look to my home country Denmark and see how many left leaning parties exists. None of them are Communists btw). Sorry if this comes off as arrogant, but are you from the US? I ask because I often see US citizen use this overgeneralization and seem lack knowledge on the difference between e.g. socialism and communism.
Lemmy’s two main developers are communists so it’s a “platform built by Communists” just like @Cowbee@lemmy.ml said.
I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I’ve read over 2 dozen books on Marxism, you can check my comment history if you want. The lead developers of Lemmy are Communists.
Also, the Nordics are Social Democracies, not Socialist.
Sorry for the confusion regarding socialist and social democracies. Will have to look more into the difference between the two. Thanks for clearing that up.
No worries!
Essentially, Social Democracy is a Capitalist system with larger social safety nets, usually as a concession to prevent revolution. Marxist criticism of Social Democracy is that the Nordics, for example, fund their safety nets via brutal exploitation of the global south, and see sliding worker protections and eroding safety nets, because the bourgeoisie is still in control.
Socialism is, generally, a transitional state to Communism. Socialism is categorized by public ownership and central planning of industry as the primary mechanism of the economy (in Marxist terms, there are other forms of socialized production that aren’t marxist, like cooperatives). Examples of Actually Existing Socialist (AES) states include the PRC, USSR (pre-dissolution, obviously), Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, etc.
Look to my home country Denmark and see how many left leaning parties exists. None of them are Communists btw
Western bloc countries purged their governments of explicitly communist parties back in the 50s and 60s, during the hottest years of the Cold War. The parties that formed in their wake had many of the same ideological inclinations operating under different monikers. So you’ve got Red–Green Alliance and more left-leaning voices in the Social Democrats talking about public housing and land reform and a worker-lead democracy, just like explicit Communists in Cuba and Vietnam and South Africa and Korea and India were seventy years ago.
Similarly, “conservative” parties organized under UKIP, National Front, FDL, or the AfD espousing all the same racist, ultra-nationalist, imperial expansionist views common to 1930s European fascists. None of this shit is new in the material sense. It’s just fresh paint on the old frame.
31·1 month agoI think there is like one party in Folketinget that is even slightly left, Enhedslisten.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world
It’s one of the easiest instances to join, thanks in no small part to the focus on growth over doctrinaire censorship. Consequently, a lot of people who don’t like .world end up joining it just to get access to the other more tightly administered communities.
you’ll get different answers if you asked on another community like Lemmy.ml’s AskLemmy.
I suggested OP to do so yesterday, they did then removed their post, not sure why
They also defederated from the major Marxist instances.
From what I recall the issue was that users from those instances acted like weapons grade cunts and it was just easier to defederate from them rather than the admins and mods have to deal with all the issues that came with them. They didn’t block them simply because they’re Marxist instances.
They defederated from Hexbear “as a last resort-” before ever federating with Hexbear.
In the Lemmygrad defederation thread, there’s unsupported claims of hate speech and calls to violence, which we have to fill in the blanks - the mods are anti-Marxist and anti-revolution, so any Marxist instance is going to fail that test.
The Hexbear defederation thread is somehow worse when they list why instead of leaving it to the imagination. Read some of the top comments, it’s clear that it was anti-Socialist in motive. Real spooky scary zingers listed as evidence in the post like “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.” This statement is 100% obvious to anyone not stanning the US Empire.
Another example listed is “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.” Yet again, they are defederated for being Marxists, and therefore being revolutionary. This is just because they are authentically Marxist, not because posters were mean.
The mods of Lemmy.world are Liberals. Not just any liberals, but “true believers.” Marxism is dangerous to them and so they shut it out, they spelled it out plainly.
Also, just thinking about it, but OP, you are posting this on a LW community, while people really disliking LW probably blocked the instance. You could maybe crosspost to !asklemmy@lemmy.ml to get additional answers
Come on, don’t encourage people to use Lemmy.ml
I’m not, just pointing out that people actually upset with LW aren’t probably on the present community
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Thanks!
someone comparing .world with .ml in politics
Everyone to the left of me is a psychotic delusion America-hating Tankie.
I’m a rational, centrist clear-eyed moderate making fact-based decisions using my extensive expertise on the subject matter.
Everyone to the right of me is a Russian bot or a troll.
lol imagine comparing .ml to Reddit.world
Are people really starting to hate on 50% of the lemmy population because of their instance?
You betcha buddy. Joking. For myself, at least.
Idk what’s going on with Flying Squid, but a lot of the trolls accounts I see are from .world so people are probably starting to associate that instance with those kinds of people.
I don’t think FlyingSquid is a troll; I just think they tend to be argumentative and opinionated (I can be those things as well, so I’m not really judging when I say so).
The Troll thing I mentioned was more regarding the hate for .world accounts. I’m a little skeptical of some, especially the newer ones.
I’ve seen some of Flying Squids’ comments, but its not like I’ve been following them closely. I don’t think they’re saying anything wrong, based on what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t begrudge someone for being passionate. That just shows me they care.
I usually beef with sh.it.just.works users because by far I’ve met the most wrong takes there, especially in WPT, and it’s quite funny considering the instance name conveys a sort of desperation in not being able to get Lemmy to work, which just makes it seem like it’s an instance for the less intellectualy gifted of us, but it’s all in good fun really. Some communities there are also quite nice.
I’m pretty aligned with hexbears/MLs but their Russia simping is too much, whether it’s critical support or trying to get a reaction out of folks to post the pig it just feels like a nazi bar type situation.
Ironically db0 and slrpnk feel far more legit to me as an anarchist though neither are explicitly anarchist or based around being leftist in any other way.
Blahaj.zone banned me for transphobia on my first post I think. Or one of the communities did. No idea what I said there but I totally get them not messing around with bans.
World is just the largest instance, so naturally has the most trolls, spam, dodgy mods with weird rules and so on and so forth.
That’s the beauty of the fediverse though, if they ever became a real problem for me I’d just block em all. I kind of love this instance culture. Makes the place feel more human than the cold masto bullshit.
Lemmy.dbzer0.com is literally anarchist though. It’s run by anarchists and has an anarchist coc. It’s just not only for anarchists.
Woops. I fowgot >.<
My wrong take of sh.it.just.works’s name is that it’s for people who neither care nor know how the fediverse works or what it even is - people who just want to consume and occasionally randomly interact.
Hey, I primarily consume and very randomly interact!
Thanks for taking your time to interact here. I appreciate it. Enjoy your scrolling…
hello fellow millenial-feels anarchist, what’s WPT?
personally i only beef with hexbear. justworks seems about the same as world
Justworks has some dedicated anti-leftism communities. Essentially folks dedicated to having a problem with Lemmy existing as long as it is made and maintained by communists.
Which communities?
MeanwhileOnGrad is a ‘just making lists’ community. The quality and credibility is closer to ToiletPaperUSA for the most part since they had users misrepresenting interactions for a while. Dunno if that’s still the case but it has been back with a vengeance the last month or so.
Shitting on tankies is pro leftism though. Tankies are not leftists, they are fascists with a bad paint job. Enumerating how their ideals diverge from modern leftist philosophy is both common sense and good praxis.
I’ve yet to see someone actually mean anything other than “Marxist” when they describe what a tankie is, it’s similar to the word “woke.” It’s nebulous and ill-defined, so now it just means “Marxist,” and thus is a left-punching term.
Hello,
This might not be the best place of all, but what do you think about this example of instance-level banning for pointing out removal of comments critical to the CCP?
https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
It’s mostly that behavior I have in mind when I think about “tankies”
It might be if there was much effort to establish any tankie ideal beyond a user being registered on .ml. It’s a lot of ‘so you hate waffles’ level of reaction and discourse unfortunately.
Having a problem with ML communist (communities) is not the same as having a problem with Lemmy
Hey there! WPT is WhitePeopleTwitter. Yeah you’re right it’s not too different from world really. I think my experience is just more happenstance haha
My biggest problem with .world is that people will just make up whatever they want about the out-group and everyone just believes it without question and with no interest in examining the
evidence.It’s a toxic element of the site’s culture that encourages circle-jerking and the automatic dismissal of opposing viewpoints while making intelligent and informed discussion impossible.The moderation is also pretty heavy-handed with censorship and things get removed for “misinformation” pretty frequently just because the mods disagree with it. You don’t have to go very far back in the modlog right now to find removed posts from Cowbee and Alcoholicorn, despite both backing up their arguments with published books from respectable authors. It’s best to avoid engaging with the mods at all, I got banned from World News because a mod couldn’t defend their position so they just banned me. There’s a pretty clear bias towards NATO and the US.
But like I said my main issue is the first point, and I’ll stop judging .worlders when I start to see people actually ask for evidence when someone says, “I saw a bunch of tankies eating kittens” instead of just blindly accepting it as fact because it’s about an out-group.
out-group
Can it be an out-group and also have totalitarian control of the platform structure?
These people made Lemmy. Sorry if their numbers are lower than average. I guess next time around they can make a no libruls allowid sign or something so the other 98% of humans know not to ruin their great fun.
totalitarian control
Lmao y’all are wild. Why are you on a platform where people you don’t like have, “totalitarian control” over the structure? Is it, perhaps, because they used this “totalitarian control” to create a structure that was decentralized and allowed communities to form that operated on different rules and different views? Doesn’t sound very totalitarian if you ask me.
Where’s that Parenti quote? Oh, found it! Evergreen quote:
"During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum."
-Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds
You literally just made up a strawman argument, which you then immediately cited as “evidence”?
Mods are busy. If this is what you tend to do, I don’t blame them one bit for not wanting to volunteer their unpaid time to deal with it - for the same reason I now understand better why some women would prefer the bear.
Now, please downvote me, you know you want to… just this once, I want you to know what it’s like to do something with the recipient’s consent.
for the same reason I now understand better why some women would prefer the bear.
Now, please downvote me, you know you want to… just this once, I want you to know what it’s like to do something with the recipient’s consent.
Lmao wtf are you talking about? Am I violating someone’s consent by holding beliefs they disagree with? Completely unhinged.
