People seem to be forgetting the mod reminder, and I’m tired of deleting posts and banning people and I do not want to lock the thread, so here is a reminder of the reminder.
Edit: Well, this is what happens when people can’t play nice. I’m locking this thread and taking out the trash.
There’s a tiny part of me that’s willing to allow that the people voting for him in 2016 just wanted to make their protests heard. Even though he was very, very clear who he is and what he stands for, people were struggling and made themselves heard in the shittiest possible way.
But the people who voted him in again, knowing exactly how it’s going to shake out could all drop dead at once and I wouldn’t shed a tear. Fuck every one of those cunts.
Hot take:
The problem isn’t the other middle class people who’ve been convinced to wear a different color hat.
The problem is the oligarchs who’ve been plotting to take over and destroy the power of the people by dismantling the government. The people who are actively doing that exact thing while the ignorant masses engage in tribalism and attacking people for voting.
Engaging on this topic is just furthering the distraction tactics. The people who’re actively working to destroy the government or implementing policies targeting minority populations are not your neighbors or anybody that you will run into on social media.
Ok but I still partially blame the people who voted the oligarchs into power
Sure, but as a leftist who grew up in a deep red area, I can tell you that those people are, largely, uneducated and ignorant.
It is because of that ignorance that they’re able to believe the lies that led them to acting the way that they did. The people who bear the majority of the responsibility and blame are the ones who know that they’re taking advantage of and cultivating that ignorance.
I get to hear, in real time, the propaganda engine work on these people (which includes most of my family). I see how topics are framed, by media personalities, into palatable actions. As I’m writing this, there’s a podcast playing at my job, where DOGE is being celebrated for finding ‘fraud and abuse’. I know, for a fact, that the listeners don’t have a high school education and have no idea how the government’s payment systems work… but the radio is telling them that DOGE is doing good work.
So, how can they know any better? These are not people who’re ever going to continue their education and their media literacy skills were developed in the 80s. They’re simply not equipped to handle the scale of lying that exists in the modern world.
On the other hand, the person talking, has multiple degrees and has served in the federal government. That person KNOWS they’re lying but continue to do so because it is profitable. I find people like that to be far more culpable. They’re lying for profit (grifting, to use an over used term) and their lies reach millions of voters.
Then you have the people who benefit from the lies. Trump and Elon know that they’re dealing with ignorant people, they know exactly how to use populist rhetoric at public events. While, in private, they’re using the power that they’ve obtained to corruptly enrich themselves and their sycophants.
Direct your ire at the people who’re actively profiting off of lies and corruption. Help to educate the other people around you when they’re being fed lies.
Attacking your neighbor while Elon and Trump ransack the government is not only pointless, it’s completely counter-productive and ensures that we’ll never unify against this kind of power grab.
Ignorance is no excuse.
What if the system is designed to keep you ignorant?
If you want to come to that conclusion in a political postmortem 20 years from now I’d fully encourage it.
The problem is that right now the house is burning down and shaming people for playing with matches won’t save us.
Everyday I read the news and get more depressed.
History doesnt judge people
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
The people leading the propaganda are blamed
And yet, so many people’s German grandfathers refused to talk about what they did during the war. Despite the lack of judgment.
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters
Maybe if folks had been shamed into not supporting the Nazis and their hollow, superficial, hateful “solutions” we wouldn’t even have an example with such obvious and clear parallels to draw upon.
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
Nobody should be (or seems to have been) fucking absolved for handing their nation to fascists, either.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/german-civilians-forced-see-real-11908228
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa1084913
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn556026
edited to correct unclear wording
History does judge people. The nazi soldiers have caught a ton of grief, even in my lifetime. The israli soldiers currently serving are frequently compared to nazi soldiers both in meme and article form.
Yes the leaders get most (and should) of the blame. But people do remember the other people making it possible. (google the Yaroslav Hunka scandal for a example).
Ill probably be considered a fascist myself in my descendants eyes, having not run for office or started/participated in a violent revolution. (I am holding out hope I might still be able to participate at least).
You have the freedom to decide, you do not have the freedom from the consequences on your decisions.
It gets even more basic than that.
Trump is just plain repulsive.
One problem is the GOP has been taken over and continually converted to MAGA; it started with calling people “RINOs,” attacking each other for party purity.
“Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line.”
Don’t assume someone who voted for Trump lacks morals or is racist etc.
They could just be really stupid. Did you think of that?
Consider average intelligence, consider now that half of them are dumber than that.
Yes, this is true for many.
deleted by creator
Or just disinformed
History will look back at the American empire and judge all its complicit civilians equally. It’s Democrat vanity that makes them think they’re not in the same genocidal boat as Republicans. You may think of yourselves in another class, but your politicians were complicit in the same crimes.
The people who are getting real mad over Republican voters don’t really care that Rs and Ds have the same foreign policy. The frontier of empire is coming home, but acknowledging that would mean acknowledging we export suffering.
Exactly why the vote is secret
America held an election. Democracy made a choice. All those that stand against democracy will also be judged by history.
We have strong evidence that that choice is NOT the one that was made.
its not like voting for scum like biden and harris is moral when they murder thousands of children for aipac money. trump is doing exactly what dnc does to poor non-white countries. now cry because you were happy when done to someone else.
israel has done far far worse warcrimes than russia in ukraine but still no mention or criticism of it in western media. everyone crying only now and silent during biden is also selfish racist hypocrite.
Naw, I’ll judge people based on a person to person basis and not just use generalized lazy ass blanket judgement on anyone whom isnt in my social/political/religious group. Stop adding to the problem.
On a person-to-person basis, I judge every person who voted for Trump because they voted for a fascist.
Just repeating a narrative does not make it true.
What narrative do you believe I’m repeating?
“I want X bad thing to happen”
“Hey, this guy wants X to happen. That’s bad.”
“STOP GENERALIZING!!1!”
I’d agree that your reasoning makes sense but is reductionist when talking about America’s two party system.
I grew up in a conservative town and I personally knew lots of people that were truly, deeply compassionate people. Christian in the truly radical, hippy sense of the word. Except they had one issue, abortion made them sad.
It wasn’t any ignorance of the issue or believing in satanic baby eating, but a philosophy arbitrarily picked by their community. They didn’t hate anyone getting an abortion, they just had some utopian vision of a world where they didn’t happen.
Since abortions were framed as murder and one party promised to ban abortions and the other party expand access, they were told there was only one ethical choice.
So their one line of thought trapped them. I could argue up and down the ballot on issues they agreed with, how the economy should be handled, prison reform, etc… but that one stupid idea held them back.
They’re still good people, and voted 3rd party a few times when the mood struck them. But I don’t think wanting one bad policy (with the best intentions) makes them bad people.
So I’d say yes. In that instance, with those people, it’s generalizing to say they were on board with any of the hateful policies. They were held hostage by their single issue, and the right’s rhetoric made damn sure they could never wriggle out.
You’re doing it again brother. Its best to try and relax.
Pretending everything is fine is not a good strategy.
We supported Trump because we believe that Biden’s policies have had a detrimental impact on our country. Over the past four years, those of us who work hard for a living have faced significant challenges. Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many. My son, for example, would have to work far harder than I ever did just to afford rent. We voted for a better future for the working class.
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity. The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns. It’s important to reflect on how Biden’s actions impact the world and the people who suffer as a result. Blaming a president who is advocating for the wellbeing of hardworking Americans misses the larger issue at hand. It’s essential to focus on the real challenges facing our nation, rather than directing blame toward individuals who are working to create a better future for the people of this country.
If you’re paying any attention, you’d be seeing you’ll get nothing but precisely the opposite of what you claimed you voted for. Given Trump’s history, you have no leg to stand on believing that liar.
You possess a unique perspective that many of us do not have, as it seems you are able to foresee the future. However, it’s important to acknowledge that Trump is following through on the promises he made, while Biden has not delivered in the same way. In his final actions, Biden prioritized securing the well-being of his family and ensuring their safety. In contrast, it often appears that Biden’s focus has not been on the American people or their interests.
Trump enriched the rich at the expense of the working person, just like he did in his first term. There are a million other things I could point out but I doubt you’d listen to a single one of them
I respectfully disagree. The working class experienced significant gains during the Trump administration, and the past four years under Biden’s leadership have been particularly challenging. These are the facts based on the experiences of many and the main reason Trump is now president. It’s important to recognize that the wealthiest individuals often remain insulated from the hardships faced by hardworking Americans, and they do not endure the same struggles as those in the labor force. Essentially they always win!
Significant gains:
That dip is in employment due to COVID. You need a different chart that compares income adjusted for stimulus payments. Im about to get out of work but Ill try to source one for you if I remember.
You aren’t wrong that’s just the wrong chart.
Yes, I know what it was due to. That doesn’t change the fact that is literally the opposite of significant gains.
“facts based on the experiences of many” is a dangerous phrase to use because your perception can in fact be compared to statistical reality
Name one way trump improved your life.
Thousands of people are currently dead because he did almost nothing to combat COVID, the economy wrecked partially for the same reason. Biden didn’t do a ton to improve or worsen economic conditions. And the public wasn’t aware of the few good things he actually did. Many people believed all the hilariously false shit about the damned laptop.
The reason trump is president right now is that a lot of billionaires worked to brainwash less educated people into voting squarely against their own interests.
Trump is currently letting the world’s richest man dismantle the government from within. If that one fact alone doesn’t alarm you I don’t know what to tell you.
Trump’s mishandling of COVID was nothing compared to the death and destruction he’s currently setting in motion. It will take this country 100 years to recover, if it ever does.
Good luck buying food once he deports millions of immigrants that currently make the food as cheap as it even is now. You won’t have to imagine produce prices tripling, you’ll see it if he actually does that shit.
Since calling you what you are is not allowed:
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I cannot see how you can look at this current administration and think that this is better in any way.
The problem is you misunderstand macroeconomics on a fundamental level if you think the policies proposed by Trump or the actions taken by Trump so far will in fact bring down prices.
I get why you hoped he was telling the truth but if you ever had taken even intro macro you would know enough to doubt what he’s saying.
If you think Trump is more moral than Biden I’d ask why you think the guy who raped people and admitted to intentionally walking in on teenaged girls changing clothes because he could was more moral because that’s just bizarre.
If President Biden’s macroeconomic policies have contributed to the current inflation, it may be time to reevaluate and implement new macroeconomic strategies.
Like tariffs that give American businesses no alternatives but to pay more for the same thing they were importing already? I’m not sure why you think that will help.
I agree that the Biden administration’s policies where not good enough to address the real issues facing working people in the country. They were pulling from the same neoliberal economic playbook that both parties have used and has been shown over and over again to increase inequality instead of decreasing inequality. Biden and Democratic leadership think we are still in the world economic situation of the 1990’s and refuse to believe otherwise.
However Trump on the other hand doesn’t even have a plan. He was correct in saying “The Economy sucks”, but had no other plan to fix the system besides “Drill Baby Drill” and “Let the Oligarchs decide how the economic system works”. Harris might have been an out of touch elite, oblivious to economic reality. But Trump is pain and destruction incarnate and will only cause more pain and destruction during his tenure.
The reality is the US Empire is dying and it can either go gracefully or with pain and anger while it takes the rest of the world with it.
It’s going with pain an anger, but thanks to Trump’s trade wars the rest of the world is finally distancing itself from the USA enough that we might not be dragged down with you.
That’s the one silver lining to all this: America’s been on a clear path to fascism since GWB at the latest, but now that it’s finally here it’s being managed by an outright moron. Trump’s stupidity will be the one thing that saves the world.
Or ends it.
No, if the world ends it’ll be because of the American public’s stupidity. They knew what they were getting when they voted for Trump. Twice.
I’m pretty sure the American public can’t launch nuclear weapons.
Trump can.
Dude’s got nukes, that doesn’t tend to end well.
Wecome to Disney’s North Korea+ (brought to you by Tesla)
I’m not going to argue with you because there’s enough other people doing that. What I am interested though is a few statistics about yourself to compare to what you’re saying.
You claim to be part of a group who " works hard for a living"
Just wondering what your line of work is and yearly income.
Have you always voted conservative? does your family vote conservative or are you the outlier?
What social media platforms do you use?.
What region of the USA do you live in? Normally blue/ red?
Thanks!
would you also like my bank account username and password?
Nope, was just hoping to understand your side of things a bit more, some context into how your opinions were formed. But clearly you’re not interested in any type of discussion.
Requesting that I provide personal information on a form before engaging in a discussion can come across as presumptuous. This is why I responded humorously to the question.
You could have easily provided some vague answer that would’ve been slightly helpful. But that would assume you’re here with good faith 😉
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I’m all in for criticizing Biden’ support for Israel and I think that the Democratic Party prefers saying “vote for us, we are not the other guy” to actually addressing the glaring issues in wealth distribution, but… Trump spectacularized the erasure of trans people from official documents and the deportation of migrants, he is dismantling that little welfare the US has to eat it up with his oligarch buddies and you still think that he is somehow better? I don’t know if you’re a bot, a shill, or simply lack the political education needed.
Removed by mod
I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the definition before using the term.
