Lemmy’s design is focused on quality content by ditching the Karma farmers and addicts. No more chasing upvotes—people here actually focus on real value instead of feeding the ego.
We have plenty of astroturfing bots & powermods here. Once karma becomes a worthwhile metric for some to filter by, it’ll be abused & manipulated here, too.
The lack of karma is definitely a plus. Zionist trolls can downvote all they want, no one cares. In fact, there isn’t much of an incentive for any to invest in “downvote farms”.
idk about you but psychologically i never chceckef my ksrma scote but still pay some attention to how an individual comment/submission is perceived. cuz i took the time to write it and it’s cool if people like/understand it and it’s “important” if they dont (at least important to my rat brains)
as a departure from this mentality, i will not edit the typos
I liked my karma back on my old reddit account (before being banned from supporting Luigi), but that is because I had the account for 12 years and invested tok much time into it.
So far I’m enjoying the laid back nature of lemmy. Hopefully there will be more engagement, maybe some UI updates too. But overall I’m liking the switch. The conversations and posts feel more real.
Oh my sweet summer child. EVERY new service and SocMed site starts out like this. Fresh, fun, and working properly. Until the masses show up. That’s when it goes to shit.
Yep, it’s just a matter of time till karma system is getting implemented on here too
It already exists, it’s just not shown.
Why make this assumption? Is there a reason you believe we need that karma system? I genuinely can’t think of any reason, outside of corporate interest to push engagement.
Yep, any sort of karma system is needed to get the masses to join somewhere. To attract the majority of people you need something that keep them interested. Karma on reddit is the same as likes on Facebook or Instagram
Horrible take. I absolutely do not give a fuck about arbitrary internet points and would like to see an open discussion without a majority bias downvoting someone into oblivion just because they disagree. For example, your comment will not be hidden just because your comment is being downvoted.
The only thing bringing profile karma to Lemmy will do is attract botters to inflate their credibility. Those could also be used to downvote others so the botter’s comments and posts are pushed to the top.
Again, horrible idea.
“Karma” is just a counter of a user’s recieved votes. It still exists on lemmy, most clients just choose to not display it.
Also where is this “value content” supposed to be?
Isn’t Karma essentially just the delta between upvotes and downvotes you get with some sort of weighting thrown in?
Because you can very much get that delta on here, it just isn’t visible in the default Lemmy interface. If you look at your account through an Mbin frontend for example you can see the “Reputation points” value in the sidebar: https://fedia.io/u/@wittycomputer@feddit.org
That’s right! I said good shit in tech posts that was worth upvoting so others can see. Then there was an bad comment I wrote in patientgaming that deserved the downvotes and not worth reading.
Lemmy still relies on upvotes for ranking the feed, so, farming them makes sense, it’s just isolated per each post.
And I believe the issue might get worse as Lemmy grows. The reason Reddit came up with karma and all that is because the more people you have on your platform, the more baddies you have to account for.
For now, Lemmy is small enough for a basic interpersonal reputation to mostly just work, but as it grows, we need something else. Presumably, not karma.
Piefed implements an “attitude” system which tracks up vote ratio and a few other simple metrics mods can use to identify bad actors
Nice! The more I hear about Piefed, the more I am inclined to check it out
Can you explain what you mean with farming upvotes makes sense? There is no part of the algorithm that takes into account how many upvotes the OP recently got, or is there?
I think they meant on a post-by-post basis. You can’t farm account karma, but you can farm upvotes on individual posts, for ego, I guess…
There is the vibe-check on Lemmy, though. I don’t believe the algorithm takes that into account.
There is no algorithm at all as far as I know, for better or worse. The closest is the “Scaled” sorting option, which takes community size into account to help boost smaller communities. But I’d hardly call that an algorithm, even though it technically is.
There is no point in farming upvotes here apart from feeding your brain’s dopamine response.
Perhaps a creddit system (for gits and shiggles)
Lemmy is small enough, that without even seeing a karma total, some users have an unofficial “rapport”, where I’ve seen them around enough to recognize whether they are the type to go against the grain, a perpetual troll, or a usually reasonable person with an unusually spicy take.
Yeah it’s got that old forum type feel still.
Just value content
Lemming36: Here is a high quality 46 MB photo of a shiny bat poop straight to .world HDD
Just don’t be a woman on Lemmy.
Sure, most people won’t downvote or harass you just for being a woman (a lot will… we didn’t get the best of Reddit at all, and I doubt the new adoptees are any better…) but they will often enough make things difficult even if they aren’t actively causing problems.
But men of Lemmy (aka the vast majority of the user base since they ran off all the womenfolk) don’t care. They see that as quality control or some dumb shit, because THEY aren’t interested in woman things, so nobody should be, or they think their “as a man” comments should be important or some shit… Whatever the post is about. If it doesn’t cater to them, it can fuck right off.
Which is why cis women make up <10% of the Lemmy side of the fediverse. It’s a disaster for women here.
But I wonder how long you’ve been here. Most of the posts of this nature are from very new accounts and they don’t know the problems yet…
I’ve not had a problem here, do you have examples of this? Not saying it does not exist, more curious as I’ve found this space a lot kinder than reddit.
The downvotes prove your point. This topic needs more discussion, but most of the times when women bring this up, their comments get downvoted to hell. It’s quite a “gotcha” for someone to ask to see “examples” when most of the examples we’ve come across or created will be buried or have since been deleted.
Alternative question - for those that don’t believe this is an issue, when is the last time you came across a post on Lemmy that is specifically for/about women or women’s issues (especially one posted from a woman’s perspective)? Or even better, go ahead and make such a post. Watch how fast the downvotes come.
I expect this comment to be downvoted the same way as the parent comment was, the same way that past posts I’ve made and read about women’s issues have been downvoted on Lemmy. If men want this place to be inclusive for women, they have to do their part to support us - not downvoting our concerns, simply because they don’t experience the same issues, is the absolute bare minimum. Otherwise, why would we keep posting/commenting about our issues when doing so invites a downvote cascade?
Alternative question - for those that don’t believe this is an issue, when is the last time you came across a post on Lemmy that is specifically for/about women or women’s issues (especially one posted from a woman’s perspective)? Or even better, go ahead and make such a post. Watch how fast the downvotes come.
I’m not going to say it isn’t a problem, but this was just the other day and while engagement could have been better it didn’t seem to be met with downvotes and pushback.
Is this really the case? I find this unexpected. Lemmy seems to be friendly to the LGBTQ people, namely trans.
If what you say is true, we should probably address it somehow.
Honestly, karma is just for getting started on reddit. Certain subreddits, require your account to exist and have a certain amount of karma to “validate” it. I don’t think people care about getting karma beyond that point.
Visible post and comment scores are still going to produce some of this behavior. You may not have a total karma but people will still get dopamine from seeing their posts getting upvotes and be reinforced in doing the same again. So the same mechanisms of social pressure and uniformisation are at play. The worst being when people delete their minority opinion comments because of the downvote pressure.
You can turn vote counts off if you want to.
Yeah but I won’t because I like dopamine.
Down votes mean I am reaching the correct audience for that specific content
Genuinely curious, does that mean that, for you, getting downvoted gives you dopamine/a sense of accomplishment?
Your above comment is in the negative when I’m making this comment. Does that feel good? Again, genuinely curious, hard to put a non-judgemental tone in writing.
I can’t relate to that feeling, upvotes and downvotes to me show how much a community agrees or disagrees with what I’ve said. Either what I said isn’t right for the community I posted it in or maybe just a generally unpopular opinion if I’m getting downvotes. Might make me reflect but usually no big deal, I’m mostly here for the discussions, memes and current events. Outside of trolling I don’t really see how getting downvoted might be seen as a good thing by a poster.
If people down vote but are unable to provide a coherent rebuttal, that means that they are rage down voting.
Not necessarily, I usually downvote comments where there are enough rebuttal replies but I still disagree heavily with what’s being said. I am able to provide the Nth coherent rebuttal but I’m just either lazy or I don’t want to contribute to the spam.
I guess getting people to rage can feel validating, knowing that I’ve made someone rage quit a game feels satisfying for sure.
I don’t personally feel that way about sites like Lemmy/Reddit/Social-media in general where things are more discussion and social-interaction based though. I guess for my kind of discourse goals, if I’ve made someone angry rather than laugh or understand my perspective, I’ve done a bad job.
I mean there are upvotes and downvotes so I don’t know what you mean. But there isn’t a real incentive to have lots of upvotes on here. I’m not even sure why karma farming even is a thing on reddit. Maybe cause you can sell the account to whatever guy wants to buy it?
It’s because Reddit specifically optimizes the site so that upvotes give you the maximum dopamine and keep you hooked on it like a crack. Most corporate social media thrive on keeping their users hooked through cheap tricks.
Lemmy Marxist Leninist Stalinist Maoist dev on the other hand doesn’t care or isn’t even able to do this because he doesn’t have an army of psychology experts to design it that way
So no you don’t get anything out of karma but your brain thinks you do and every aspect of the site is built to maximise this. I hate it
I was offered $300 for my Reddit account once lmao
That’s batshit crazy
I don’t get the karma hangup thing. Like… Lemmy does have Karma, but we just don’t culturally make it a priority.
The fact that it’s not designed to notify you every time you get 5 upvotes changes the game. Also low Karma accounts can post in Lemmy as opposed to Reddit.
Exactly - Reddit specifically and intentionally uses dark patterns to reinforce the importance of karma at every turn. The first interaction that someone has with Reddit is usually “you don’t have enough karma to post/comment/vote in this subreddit.” There are secret communities and public awards for high karma earners. There is a frontpage dedicated to rapid karma-earning posts. There is no disincentive for karma farming reposts, and subreddits are actually punished for reducing reposts. Karma is commoditized.
Here the votes still matter, but the algorithm is public and users can and do sort in a variety of ways to discover new and relevant content. There is no single “front-page”
Unfortunately, on reddit - when subreddits restrict new posters or low karma commenters, they’re just trying to mitigate the impact of trolls and bots and people making new accounts. It’s not about being elitist.
Yeah because reddit (and Lemmy) are different to what a lot of people are used to. Users coming from things like tiktok or Facebook need to lurk a bit before posting so they get a feel for the culture.
It is gatekeepy but its nessesary in my opinion. However I can see how the karma restrictions are super jarring for new users since it takes a while to get especially if your comments are always buried.
There used to be a saying on early image boards that have helped me more times than I can remember. “Lurk moar”, it has served me well. Even getting used to office culture. It helps to not make any faux pas that would make it harder to get along.
The karma restrictions seems at first a good idea but can be bypassed very easily. The bots steal older popular posts or pictures and repost them.
Sure, but it offers at least some protection.
This may not be an inherently bad thing given that low karma accounts tend to be trolls.
I’d argue that low karma accounts tend to be new people or lurkers.
By low karma I mean -100 types.
I call that negative karma. Low karma is 0-200. 200 because that is a limit that at least some subs would use to limit new accounts from posting.
Good moderation eliminates trolls pretty quickly. Admins are incentivized to respond to users’ concerns rather than a profit motive. Some communities do have a minimum account age for certain actions, and some instances require a real email address and IP address to join/participate.
Trolls are bots are rare on Lemmy. They are the norm on reddit.
The traffic on Reddit is massive for highly populated subreddits. And these subreddits that restrict low karma account activities aren’t doing it for any profit motive.
I understand Lemmy isn’t really big enough for this to be a concern here.
If/when it does get big enough, what would be a good solution? It would be possible to do the same as Reddit
low Karma accounts can post in Lemmy as opposed to Reddit
But should they?
One of the things I miss about reddit (and slashdot before that) was that if you got downvoted/downmodded a lot in a short amount of time, it would tell you to slow down (, cowboy). It helped to limit the damage when someone would go on a troll spree before they got banned.
Some subreddits did implement a “you must have x karma to post” rule, or account age, which I wasn’t always a fan of, especially if it was karma within a certain subreddit. I understand the logic, that it was intended to make people read the community before posting, but I’m not sure if it hit the mark. But it did limit brand-new spam accounts, which are already here on lemmy.
I believe it’s an unhealthy habit, silencing unpopular people. Some of us low profile oddballs like to share our thoughts too
Some communities use a “santabot” to auto-ban accounts with more downvotes than upvotes. I’ve never seen it happen to someone who didn’t deserve it.
I do like the slow down, cowboy think and I’m pretty sure reddit had that extremely early on as well
notify you every time you get 5 upvotes
wat
Is that a new thing? I’m pretty sure it didn’t do that before I left.
It doesn’t have karma in the sense that there is a publicly displayed total of every post and comment you made so you can point at your profile and be like “look how much karma I have!”
