You must be man. 😀

Me too, but I also sew, so: Different types of clothing fit women differently based on size. And I don’t mean body shape fit just being slightly different. A “small shirt” can have a million different lengths which could reveal midriff based on bust or Shoulder size. This is impacted by curves but is a total dofferent measurement. And this can happen with any gender, but statistically more so for women.

And wait until you realize that people are sized different in different countries other than America.

The best solution would be to remove sizes altogether and create a standardized measurements sheet that is required to be included on clothing sites or tags. Or at least an international standard. It’s done in engineering, why not in textiles?

Because men and women have different body shapes. A small man and woman may need the same size but certainly not the same cut.

E: nvm i skipped over you talking about body shapes. Yes I’d agree that there should be more options, but even an overweight man will likely need and want a different cut than a woman of similar proportions. So the distinction between genders still makes sense, just that each needs to accommodate more body types.

Tradition plays a huge part in it.

Why do so many women’s dresses zip up the back? Because servants used to be a thing. Same reason women’s shirts button differently than men’s; someone else was supposed to be dressing the lady.

Even fifty years ago in New York a man could be arrested for wearing something the police considered “women’s clothes.” and NYC was considered a loose town with easy morals

Well, depending on who you ask, vanity or capitalism.

Women’s sizes were chosen.

Men’s sizes are typically measurements, usually waist × inseam and neck × sleeve × chest

Women’s sizes are harder because they have a wider range of measurements needed to get a good fit. Bust size, waist size, and hip size can have different ratios to each other, even when the waist size is the same. So, Wanda might have a 20 inch waist, a 58 bust and a 36 hip measurement. But her sister June might be 20 waist, 36 bust and 58 hips. Obviously, clothing measured the way men’s is wouldn’t give as reliable a guide.

So, way back when mass produced clothing came onto the scene with standardized sizes, something needed to be picked.

Turns out that a size 6 sells better than a size 20, even if the actual measurements are exactly the same. Not that men’s clothing is immune from vanity capitalism, you should see the clusterduck that is XL sizing.

But, with “dressy” clothing, mens shirts are usually going to be measured. Women’s sizing, particularly dresses and pants, they go by the fairly arbitrary numeric system based on ratios. Just don’t ask me how it was calculated originally, I never cared enough to find out.

Thing is, while those sizes were originally meant to standardize things, that no longer works. You go get a size 6 in one store, hold it up against a size 8 from another, and they’ll be the same measurements. Why? Because they’re playing a numbers game based on vanity. Some places, a size 6 is unrecognizable as an actual size, it’s just so far off from the median.

Also, I use size 6 a lot because it was, at one point, the “default” size for models and mannequins. I think that’s changed, but it stuck in my head, so I tend to pull it up as a baseline example. I know it’s usually what’s used for fitting models, which is a whole thing of its own. It varies a lot more nowadays for runway and catalog work though. Height is more important in catalog work afaik.

Anyway, tangent aside, shoes are a bit more practical. Women’s feet have a slightly different set of angles, so just a toe-to-heel measure wouldn’t work exactly the same between men’s and women’s feet. I can’t recall the exact points where measurements occur to get the different sizes, but that’s what it comes down to. You have to measure the feet differently to get a good fit.

Which is the overall why none of the clothing sizes will cross over well.

Yeah, a men’s XL is going to fit a woman with a given bust measurement about the same as a women’s xxl (iirc, don’t hold the exact conversion as fact, I’m just pulling from memory here), but they may not fit the same.

A men’s dress shirt is going to fit a woman horribly, even if it’s the right chest or neck diameter. It’ll be cut for a bigger waist, with longer arms. But a woman’s dress shirt will fit z better*, because that’s taken into account.

Funnily enough, men that lift a lot of weights end up having trouble fitting men’s clothing sizes as well. You get something that fits your chest, it won’t fit your waist (unless you’re a power lifter, where you tend to see less difference between chest and waist than in bodybuilder circles), and it may not fit your neck worth a damn. Buy for the neck size, your sleeves can be baggy.

The patterns used don’t scale up the same as the human body does as it puts on muscle. It’s still not as big of a pain in the ass as it is for women with significant differences, but it is a pain in the ass lol. I’ve never been able to buy a suit off the rack. I’ve only had a few, but they all had to be tailored.

Take shoes for example. Why is a uk men’s size 10 so wildly different from a UK women’s size 10?

EU shoe sizes aren’t different based off gender; women just tend to have size 37 when men tend to have size 42.

Have you seen a woman? Their bodies are different, clothes are cut differently. What the hell man. Im surprised this is a serious post. :)

How are you going to go into a shop and get clothes for your “body shape” in the scenario that there are no male or female clothes?

You can do this if you custom order a suite from a tailor but not when you shop for sweaters in the shop…

There are a million things that only women wear also.

This really depends on the clothes. Shoes should absolutely have a single sizing system and I would love for all pants to use waist/leg measurements like jeans do. But many other garments are completely reasonable to separate based on gender (or sex, rather), primarily tops due to the fact of boobs existing and even pants like I mentioned are able to have tighter crotches on a women’s size.

Like others already mentioned, they don’t just differ in size, but in shape as well. What I would prefer is different varieties for each size per sex. For example, I am an Asian medium. So when buying shirts in the US, I’m in that weird spot where a US medium is too wide on the shoulders and the sleeves too big, but the torso is just right. On the other hand, a US small fits just right on the shoulder width and sleeves, but the torso is too tight. It would be great if there are variations based on build as well like pants (i.e. slim, standard, wide, etc.).

I mean, a men’s size 10 is wildly different to some other brands size 10

I would have to speculate, but I think it’s due to averages.

The average woman is much smaller than the average man. There are a handful of sizes that will fit most women, and a handful for men. Think of a standard distribution: there will be outliers, but most are in a certain range.

Over many decades, even centuries, sizing is more rigidly codified as larger scale production of textiles/shoes becomes common, but of course this sizing doesn’t apply to everyone for various reasons, so things such as vanity sizing and regional/manufacturing differences created an even bigger mess.

Not to mention that people are fatter now because of the caloric density of modern food, so it’s relatively common now that even really short people can be very wide. Plus sizing is also a huge clusterfuck.

Another factor is fit and cut, but this comment is already too long to get into that.

Marketing

Tell me about it. It’s an exercise in frustration to find good fitting clothes as a trans woman because most clothes don’t come with a sizing table and if they do they skip the most important measurement for me: shoulders.

Or it can be a real punch in the gut when the description includes what size the model in the photos is wearing. For example the model is the same size as me (1.74m) and wears a size S. And I’m like great I will take that in L or XL…

Resisting the urge to downvoted because this is a great question for this sub.

A lot of it is historical and never changed for 100+ years. Same reason buttons are on opposite sides on men and women garments.

To charge women more? The pink tax is real

It depends on how the standard was made, with the decisions generally made to fit specific reasons and no overarching standard.

There are also clothes that use more than one number. A lot of mens pants use two numbers; the same with formal mens shirts.