The main reasons I’ve seen from vegans for not eating meat seem to be all about the morality of eating a sentient animal, the practices of the modern meat industry, and the environmental impact of it. And don’t have anything to do with the taste of meat.
Since lab-grown meat doesn’t cause animal suffering, and assuming mass production is environmentally friendly, would you consider going back to eating meat if it were the lab-grown kind?
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I would not mind eating lab grown and I think it is great if people would eat that instead but ive been vegan for so long that i have no interest in meat. I hardly eat mock meats, its only in social situations to not stand out to much.
Seconded. When I was vegan I’d already been vegetarian for years. Meat, including fake meat, held no appeal.
Fake meat has more of an appeal to me than lab grown meat, or it used to. It was kinda interesting when they were unique flavours marketed as alternatives rather than accurate immitations.
Honestly the food science is one of my favourite things about being vegan, I can cook way more interesting meals than I could as a carnist because I’d just use meat as the main flavour which works but it’s kinda lazy. Let me make something with a little miso and shitake broth and you’ll be in love
You got me drooling - any recipe suggestions? I’ve both ingredients in my fridge!
I don’t have any written recipes I’m afraid, I’ve been making them up as I go.
I usually use that combination for a ramen base. I used dried shitake and soak them in a ton of water overnight in the fridge. The dried shitake are honestly kinda inedible even after being rehydrated so I don’t always use them afterwards. I should also soak Kombu but I keep forgetting to buy it.
If you mix that broth with the right amount of miso paste then you’ll get the amazing combination of msg and nucleotides that gives you some amazing flavours. Soy sauce helps too, some garlic, ginger and sesame oil make it perfect.
Good luck working out ratios because I just guess everytime based on the size of my bowls 😅
Thanks so much for sharing! I’ll have to experiment for dinner tomorrow (I’m blessed to have a local eco store that sells everything you mentioned).
Hell yeah!
Good luck and have fun!
Same. I stopped eating meat in the mid 90s, was pescatarian until 2019, and have been vegan since. I don’t miss meat at all. I’ll eat an impossible or a beyond burger occasionally because it’s sometimes my only option, but I could just as easily skip them.
I wouldn’t judge anyone else for eating lab meat, though. I don’t have any moral issue with it, it just isn’t something I’m personally interested in.
it’s* only in
If it’s cheap, sure.
It’s a lot of effort to solve an issue that’s already solved by being vegan so eh, I’m pretty indifferent to it at least at face value. If it can compete with a vegan diet in terms of climate and ecosystem impact then I’ll support it but I’ve no interest in it personally. I don’t really have any justification for not being interested, I’m just not.
I’d be much more interested in seeing artificial cheese made from proteins created by yeast or bacteria tbh.
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I dated a vegetarian, and I love to cook. It was wild how little it took to break through the “meatless” thing. We didn’t last but I kept the skillset, and eat vegetarian at least a few nights of the week.
I love being able to taste things at every stage without worry about food safety. Like if I don’t think a sauce is quite right, I can always try a bit. Once you kind of break through, meat freaks you out a bit… and I still eat meat!
Edit: I’ll also add: giving up cheese and eggs would be hard as hell though… I get where that would be more exciting than meat.
I saw lab grown milk at the grocery store the other day! It’s still pretty pricey and there’s only whole milk but I’m excited that accessible lab grown milk is on the horizon
No, I dont like the taste or texture
Where are you getting lab grown meats?
I assume they meant meat in general. Supposed lab-grown meat aims to be a similar experience, the given answer is self-explanatory.
Btw, you can get lab-grown meat in a reastaurant in Singapore iirc.
Yes you are correct. I was talking about meat in general.
From… A guy. Don’t ask questions.
Lab grown meat currently does still does cause animal suffering since it’s often derived from fetal bovine serum.
As a vegan, I still wouldn’t eat it without that though because I have come to view flesh as inedible as other people would see tree bark or tires outside of desperate situations.
I already make food I like at home without it, there’s no point in adding it back in.
It’s not derived from FBS, FBS is used to feed the cell culture. The stemcells themselves come from other sources of the embryo. So growing meat from meat with serum.
Vegetarian here. It’s not something I’d personally buy or use in meals, as I don’t really have the desire to eat meat. That said, if it happened to be in a dish I really want to try at a restaurant, sure I’d eat it.
For sure
It would depend how this lab grown meat affects the environment or who produces it, how, what price it is… I’m not opposed to it, just need to see the details.
And whether screams in inarticulate horror at being conscious without senses other than pressure and pain.
But hopefully that’s not how it goes
Let’s take this a step farther.
Would you eat human meat that was grown in a lab, if you could know for certain that the cells that were used to form the cultures were harvested from a consenting adult that was duly compensated? What if that person not only had consented, but wanted to be eaten, because they had a vore fetish, and enjoyed the thought of people eating pieces of them?
No, but the reason for it is one of safety, not morality:
Every bacteria, virus, fungus or other germ that can contaminate that lab and that meat is already adapted to hurt me, there is no species barrier. Nature generally abhors cannibalism because of this.
Now if you grow it in a lab, that might not be too much of a risk, but once you enter capitalist industrial production there are numerous incentives to cut corners and increase the risk of contamination.
Contamination also exists in factory farming, but at least there, there’s a species barrier and the impact of that cannot be overstated.
Alternatively, you’ll create a swamp of human meat factory farms that use huge amounts of antiviral, antifungal and antibiotic agents and just get soooooo much more effective in training multi-resistant germs, already adapted to human tissue.
there is no species barrier
There are a few things to unpack here.
First, most of the bacteria, et al. that we have to worry about right now from meat production and consumption are already well-adapted to human hosts. The solution, in most cases, is to adequately cook the meat, and to practice very basic food safety at home. Most food-borne illnesses are the result of inadequate cooking time and temperature. Other toxins–like botulism–are actually a biproduct of bacteria that colonize meat during putrefaction; you can kill the bacteria that produce the botulism toxin, but once it’s present, there’s not a lot you can do. (This is why you refrigerate meat. Clostridium botulinum reproduction is primarily room temperature, and anaerobic, so it’s mostly a problem with canned goods that weren’t sterilized properly during canning.)
The same solution to bacterial contamination in meat now would be the most effective solution for any lab-grown meat: cook your food correctly.
you’ll create a swamp of human meat factory farms that use huge amounts of antiviral, antifungal and antibiotic agents
I think that it’s unlikely that, aside from cleaning agents, that you would need antibacterial/antifungal/virucidal agents in producing lab-grown meat of any kind. Many of the most effective cleaning agents work because there’s no way to evolve protections against them. 70% isopropyl alcohol for instance; any resistance that bacteria evolved would also severely inhibit their ability to have any other functions. You can use radiation, or heat + steam (or even dry heat) to sterilize all of your equipment prior to introducing cells, and you have more control over the nutrient bath that it grows in. Depending on the nutrient bath, you can sterilize that by filtration; .22μm filtration is the standard for sterilizing IV and IM compounded medications. (.22μm is smaller than all bacteria, and many viruses. Molecules will still pass through that filter pore size though. You can also get filters down to .15μm if you need to remove more viruses.) Cows, chickens, etc. use so many antibacterials because they aren’t able to put them in ideal conditions and maintain the desired production levels.
I think that the lack of a species barrier is a far, far smaller risk than you might believe it to be.
BUT.
I think that there is one enormous risk: prions. Misfolded proteins are exceptionally hard to detect, and anything that denatures them will denature other proteins as well. The risk is likely very, very low, given how uncommon prion diseases are, but it’s definitely a risk when you can grow a culture indefinitely.
Typically the major threats from canniblism are bacteria, viruses, fungus, parasites and prions. The bacteria, viruses, fungus and parasites shouldn’t exist under properly maintained lab conditions. But prions are just misfolded proteins. They happen rarely and typically they are quarantined in the cell they were produced in. A number of things have to go very, very wrong for them to get out into your body from your own cells. However, eating and digesting cells can let out the prions they contain. Once they get out they’ll start triggering other proteins to misfold but only if the right materials are present and if the prion came from human tissue you can be sure they are.
The human immune system is incredible, it has impressive countermeasures for almost anything you could think of. Heck it’ll even attack solid objects that get stuck inside you. If you get shot by a bullet and don’t get it removed (not recommended) your body will layer by layer eat that bullet. Slowly dissolving it and passing it into your blood so your kidneys can filter it and you can piss out that bullet over the course of decades. (Though having a bunch more metal in your blood causes its own problems). Your body has a response to just about everything including cancer which to get anywhere has to have some mutations to deceive your immune system.
Your body has no answer to prions whatsoever. Your body puts up no fight. If you are infected by a prion disease you are going to die. There is no vaccine, no cure, no treatment.
Once symptoms appear you’ll have at most a few years if your very lucky but more likely a few months. Most prion diseases attack the brain. (side note; don’t eat the brains of any animal regardless of circumstances)
Will perfectly sterile lab conditions eliminate prions as a concern? No If anything it might be possible that growing the meat artificially might result in more misfolded proteins. I’d still happily eat lab-grown animal meat. But lab-grown human meat? No thank you
I always enjoy the weird questions most.
Absolutely. Nothing suffered or died to produce it so I wouldn’t consider it unethical. I realize most people wouldn’t be able to get past the “human” label.
Edit: not actually a vegan so not sure my vote counts in this thread.
It’s technically vegan if the human consents and wants to be eaten.
I don’t have any desire or curiosity to eat meat, human or animal, so I wouldn’t partake. The added vore fetish sexual aspect is also really gross to me tbh.
This I think raises a real question of whether its verifiabley lab grown or from a consenting place and not just unethically harvested.
I’ve been telling my friends for years that the technology advances in lab grown meat mean it’s only a matter of time before we get Kevin Bacon bacon.
I would. Ever since I singed my arm with a small explosion in high school, I’ve been intrigued to try. It smelled delicious.
I have a brand (yeah, the kind done with red-hot metal); my impression was that burning skin and subcutaneous fat smelled like a delicious pork roast.
The real question is, can you call it “human meat” if it is lab grown?
It might have the same texture, taste and consistency, but because it didn’t come from an actual human it isn’t really cannibalism, is it?
Sure, why not.
I don’t eat meat because it causes suffering in another. Plants have no concept of pain without a brain, nervous system or even nerve endings. So to me, the question becomes if the lab grown meat was ever attached to a brain that could feel suffering.
Now as far i understand it, lab grown meat isn’t nessecarily grown in isolation from a cow. But in a solution primarily compromised of blood extracted from living cows. That’s without question better than killing a creature, buuuuuuut we all know that when profits are involved the health of a animal is not prioritized.
So it really depends, while I don’t miss meat, once lab grown becomes widely available I’ll make my choice depending on the exact process of how it reached the grocery store.
Plants have no concept of pain without a brain, nervous system or even nerve endings.
Ehhh, questionable.
No. It’s really not. I know the study you are going to link with the clickbait title that “plants feel pain”, but it’s unscientific garbage.
When you cut a plant, it only reacts with a secretion. That’s not sentience, it has no concept of pain because it literally does not have the required parts to feel it. Pain requires a nerve ending to feel the sensation, a brain to process that sensation in to an threat and a system to connect those two organs. Plants have none of this.
Yes plants release a pheromone when they are cut, but to extrapolate that to pain is a wild leap. If I cut an animal, they bleed, they yell, and they either run away or attack me, they generally do the same for their children. Exactly like humans react when cut. It’s impossible to disprove if plants have some other totally radically different type of intelligence we just don’t understand yet, but there is no evidence to suggest that is the case. I am making my choices based off evidence, not “idk, what if it was true”. It’s the same reason I know the earth is round and not flat, evidence not vibes.
It is intellectually dishonest to say that a potato and a pig perceive the world in the same way.
Consciousness is an open question. A potato does not perceive the same way as a pig, but a pig does not perceive the same way as a human. Plants communicate and make rudimentary decisions. Once you start getting into questions of degree, you subjectively decide where to draw the line. If you can argue that the line is between animals and plants, then someone else can argue the line is between animals and humans.
It’s intellectually dishonest to pretend our understanding of sentience and sapience is simple and unambiguous.
If you can argue that the line is between animals and plants, then someone else can argue the line is between animals and humans.
See, this is where you are just throwing your hands up and giving up on an sort of ethics. Because it’s theoretically possible for plants to feel pain then there is no reason to act moral when it comes to animals who we KNOW feel pain.
It’s like saying “porn with adults is harmful, but so is porn with children, who is to say where the line is? It’s an open question that is all perspective, so consume whatever you like”. When we know for a fact that sexual abuse of children causes suffering as opposed to what consenting adults do for a job.
Saying plants feel pain is motivated reasoning to call vegans hypocrites, not to actually produce a better world. I did not message you with my beliefs, you messaged me with whataboutism. 99% of the food humans eat is living in some sense (aside from minerals like salt), yeast in my bread is alive in some sense, but comparing that life to an animal as a reason it may not be matter? That it’s all perspective? Well then why not draw the line around cannibalism of anyone under a certain IQ. If consciousness is such an open question, then who is to say anyone is real except for myself? If I hurt another human, who is to say that they feel at all? It could all be simulation from a certain perspective so who cares?
This sort of “what if” and “it depends” whataboutism doesn’t actually help anyone. I didn’t bring veganism to you, you brought this to me. This is just naval gazing because calling vegan hypocrites makes you more secure in your own choices. You’re not saying anything of value,
Uh, you do know it’s possible to focus on fruits, which are freely given, right? You volunteered your perspective in the first place, and you’re the one throwing your hands up instead of finding an ethical diet. You’re the one trying to justify your choices based on subjective distinction. You’re the one calling yourself a hypocrite. All I said was that your absolute claim was questionable.
I eat, primarily, botanical fruits (which includes cucumbers, squash, and a surprising quantity of other vegetables freely given by plants for our consumption) as well as meat which would otherwise be thrown away. Once the animal is dead, it is far more respectful to consume it than let it be wasted. I typically buy meat on clearance, at the end of the night, on the expiration date.
I have no desire to “gotcha” people who sincerely want to make a better world, but hypocrites who call out others while justifying their own ethical blind spots are typically more interested in self-righteousness than actually improving the world.
🙄🤦
hypocrites who call out others while justifying their own ethical blind spots are typically more interested in self-righteousness than actually improving the world.
Exactly. I agree completely, but scroll up and remember I didn’t call ANYONE out in my original comment. I came to this thread because my perspective was asked for in the title. You came to me with a “but plants” trying to call MY beliefs out. So think whatever you want, but frankly, leave me the hell alone. This isn’t a discussion I asked for, it’s not on topic and you’re not saying anything interesting.
Once again, I said none of that. Scroll up to verify I didn’t call you out at any point.
This is a public forum, when you make a statement people are free to comment. You made a statement I disagreed with, and all I said was that the statement was questionable. All the rest of this “calling beliefs out” happened purely in your head. Feel how you wish about your choices, but don’t implicate me in your projection.
Extracting the stem cells may or may not cause harm to animals. If it is extracted from a live animal then it would cause harm and stress to an animal.
The medium used for growing may not be vegan (like FSB which is extracted from an animals death). But reportedly companies are moving to cheaper, plant-based, mediums.
Even if the process caused no harm or stress to animals, I’m not sure i would eat lab grown meat. I’ve already completely replaced meat in my cooking, and learned how to make much more nutrious meals. Adding meat back in would be regressive. Not to mention i feel like lab grown meat in particular will have been made possible through animal suffering research. While I’m glad it will have potential to be a net positive in the long run, i personally don’t feel the desire to support lab grown meat
No, I think it’s a good idea but I’m fine with plant based alts. I think it’s a lot better than having to kill animals for food but still seems like a lot of extr steps when you can just eat plants and stuff mad from plants without requiring a biological reactor, and lab. I would also assume that the process requires at least some more energy or resorces than regular food processing methods. So it wouldn’t win any points on that front. I was raised vegan for context, so I’ve never actually tasted real meat and don’t see any reason to try it now, lab grown or not.
I don’t think so, it doesn’t sound very appealing. I’m very used to going without meat, and tofu satisfies me quite well, or seitan. Being vegan to me is getting away from the idea that you need a lump of something fleshy on your plate to be satisfied.
I would eat it, but I would do so on rare occasions in the same way I might have a drink with friends once a month. I became vegetarian for health reasons in addition to the reasons listed by OP and I have grown to really enjoy meat-free eating, so I don’t really miss it but would view it as a treat best enjoyed sparingly.
