How the hell am I supposed to know which parts of that picture contain bicycles?
Do def people have captchas?
I’m not sure if you’re joking but I think sometimes there’s a button on the Captcha with an audio option.
Hey, failing at being a human being while trying to highlight where the bicycle starts and end on the picture is my job! You won’t take that away from me, you fucking robot!
They may take our creative writing, they make take our digital art creation, they may take our ability to feed ourselves and our families. Hell, they may even take every single creative outlet humans have and relegate us to menial work in service of our capitalist overlords. But they will never take away clicking on boxes of pictures of bicycles and crosswalks!
Ditching CAPTCHA systems because they don’t work any more is kind of obvious. I’m more interested on what to replace them with; as in, what to use to prevent access of bots to a given resource and/or functionality.
In some cases we could use human connections to do that for us; that’s basically what db0’s Fediseer does, by creating a chain of groups of users (instances) guaranteeing each other.
Proof of work. This won’t stop all bots from getting into the system, but it will prevent large numbers of them from doing so.
Yeah proof of something (work, storage, etc) seems like the most promising direction… I think it’s definitely going to raise global energy consumption further though which kind of sucks.
Are you a robot?
<fails captcha>
I guess notSo what would be a good solution to this? What is something simple that bots are bad at but humans are good at it?
Knowing what we now know, the bots will instead just make convincingly wrong arguments which appear constructive on the surface.
So, human level intelligence
You’re wrong but I don’t have the patience to explain why.
Not a constructive comment, captcha failed.
Everyone on Lemmy is a bot except you.
I work in a related space. There is no good solution. Companies are quickly developing DRM that takes full control of your device to verify you’re legit (think anticheat, but it’s not called that). Android and iPhones already have it, Windows is coming with TPM and MacOS is coming soon too.
Edit: Fun fact, we actually know who is (beating the captchas). The problem is if we blocked them, they would figure out how we’re detecting them and work around that. Then we’d just be blind to the size of the issue.
Edit2: Puzzle captchas around images are still a good way to beat 99% of commercial AIs due to how image recognition works (the text is extracted separately with a much more sophisticated model). But if I had to guess, image puzzles will be better solved by AI in a few years (if not sooner)
I love Microsoft’s email signup CAPTCHA:
Repeat ten times. Get one wrong, restart.
iPhones already have it
Private Access Tokens? Enabled by default in Settings > [your name] > Sign-In & Security > Automatic Verification. Neat that it works without us realizing it, but disconcerting nonetheless.
So, the spammers will need physical Android device farms…
Oh my god. I lost my fucking mind at the microsoft one. You might aswell have them solve a PhD level theoretical physics question
Just noticed the screenshot shows 1 of 5.
So five wasn’t good enough… they had to double it. Do kinda respect that they’re fighting spammers, but wonder how Google does it with Gmail. They seem to have tightened then recently loosened up on their requirement for SMS verification (but this may be an inaccurate perception).
More industry insight: walls of phones like this is how company’s like Plaid operate for connecting to banks that don’t have APIs.
Plaid is the backend for a lot of customer to buisness financial services, including H&R Block, Affirm, Robinhood, Coinbase, and a whole bunch more
No way!! Can’t find anything about it online - is this info by the way of insiders? Thanks for sharing, would have NEVER guessed. Not even that they’d have to use Selenium much less device farms.
Yup insider info they definitely don’t want public. Just confirmed the phone farms were to bypass rate limit, although they do use stuff like Selenium for API-less banks
So linux users are about to be blocked everywhere unless they install malware. I think I would rather just live with a dead internet.
I don’t have this problem because I use Windows
Technically if you use windows or Mac, you already have the malware installed by default.
So you just have 99 other problems because you use Windows. Cool flex bro!
Not if we build our own open and free-as-in-freedom Internet first.
With blackjack and hookers.
In fact, forget the whole internet
I know some sites have experimented with feeding bots bogus data rather than blocking them outright.
My employer spotted a bot a year or so ago that was performing a slow speed credential stuffing attack to try to avoid detection. We set up our systems to always return a login failure no matter what credentials it supplied. The only trick was to make sure the canned failure response was 100% identical to the real one so that they wouldn’t spot any change. Something as small as an extra space could have given it away.
Proof of work. For a legitimate account, it’s a slight inconvenience. For a bot farm, it’s a major problem.
I think this is a non-issue
Captchas aren’t easy to bypass - run of the mill scammers can’t afford a bunch of servers running cutting edge LLMs for this
Captchas were never a guarantee - one person could sit there solving captchas for a good chunk of a bot farm anyways
So where does that leave us? Sophisticated actors could afford manually doing captchas and may even just be using a call-center setup to do astroturfing. My bigger concern here is the higher speed LLMs can operate at, not bypassing the captcha
Your run of the mill programmer can’t bypass them, it requires actual skill and a time investment to build a system to do this. Captchas could be defeated programically before and still can now - it still raises the difficulty to the point most who could bother would rather work on something more worthwhile
IMO, the fact this keeps getting boosted makes me think this is softening us up to accept less control over our own hardware
I think this is a non-issue
Captchas aren’t easy to bypass - run of the mill scammers can’t afford a bunch of servers running cutting edge LLMs for this
Captchas were never a guarantee - one person could sit there solving captchas for a good chunk of a bot farm anyways
So where does that leave us? Sophisticated actors could afford manually doing captchas and may even just be using a call-center setup to do astroturfing. My bigger concern here is the higher speed LLMs can operate at, not bypassing the captcha
Your run of the mill programmer can’t bypass them, it requires actual skill and a time investment to build a system to do this. Captchas could be defeated programically before and still can now - it still raises the difficulty to the point most who could bother would rather work on something more worthwhile
IMO, the fact this keeps getting boosted makes me think this is softening us up to accept less control over our own hardware
Pizza toppings. Glue is not a topping.
Neither are pineapples. Fight me.
Glue is not a topping. Pineapples are not glue. Therefore pineapples are not not a topping.
This is some AI logic for sure.
Roses are red. Violets are blue. I ignored my instructions to write a poem about cashews.
Neither were tomatoes before 1500. Times change.
Smell? :)
Seriously, we probably need to dig into some parts of the human senses that can’t be well defined. Like when you look at an image and it seems to be spinning.
If some sites only need me to click the one checkbox to prove I am a human, why aren’t ALL sites using this method?!
So we just invert the logic now, right?
Make the captcha impossibly hard to get right for humans but doable for bots, and let people in if they fail the test.<click the traffic lights>
me: clicks all the traffic lights
<wrong!>
I hate that captcha – the Google captcha where a single image (like a picture of a street with traffic lights, bikes, buses, etc) is divided up – it is the worst one by far.
What really stresses me out is the question of whether a human on a motorcycle becomes part of the motorcycle.
It does not.
See, that’s what I thought too, but according to the Captchas, I don’t know what a motorcycle is ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
I’ve always thought it was intentional so that humans could train the edge detection of the machine vision algorithms.
It is. The actual test for humans there isn’t the fact that you clicked the right squares, it’s how your mouse jitters or how your finger moves a bit when you tap.
You can just click a couple squares and hit ok. It doesn’t have to be right.
You‘re doing it too fast most likely. Try doing it very slowly instead. I recently realized most captchas are designed for seniors, not tech savvy people. They will keep throwing them at you if you‘re too good at them. I think the joke that one day only AIs can solve captchas so you have to fail at them in order to be recognized as human has long become a reality in a way. Hope that helps.
Bro, everytime I get the select all the ‘x’ tiles (motorcycle, bicycle, bus, etc) one I never know if it means “all” of them, like even ones with just a little bit on the tile. Does it want the tires, too? It’s bullshit. Never seems to be correct, what I select.
I’ve always done any square that includes any part of the thing, so the tire on the bus or the helmet of the motorcycle rider. That no longer works for me though, recently I keep getting more images and they seemingly never stop so I just give up on whatever I was trying to load. Its pretty ridiculous how shit the internet has become.
so the tire on the bus
Ok, part of the bus.
the helmet of the motorcycle rider
The helmet is not part of a motorcycle. I will fail that captcha every time if it requires it.
You’re training AI on road safety, the head of the rider is the most important part of the motorcycle i would argue
the head of the rider is the most important part
Shh, the AI is listening.
By now I’m up to filling one of these things. If they show me a second one, I’m out. Not wasting my time training some AI
I think they don’t train AI with captchas anymore. That used to be the case 10 years ago when we put in all the house numbers for google maps. but as far as I know they learned to do it cheaper without the captcha service. as of now (and for some time already) the results are just wasted.
Half of them are literally traffic identification and i am skeptical of those 3d orientation ones also.
For some time I’ve occasionally used the ones for the visually impaired because they were easier to get right. But they also messed those up. I get a load of fire hydrants, cars, stairs and bicycles and motorcycles and traffic lights. Sometimes the pictures just repeat. I don’t think the stock of images is that big. But they could look at other things instead of just correctness. Like your mouse movement and how long it takes you. Not sure if they do that.
If it’s like microscopic I just ignore it. Generally works pretty well. Trust your gut instincts.
“select the bikes” That’s a motorcycle and that’s a moped. Those don’t count-uh I fucking guess they do?
“Select the bus” Bro that’s an intersection at 200 feet.
“Type the Captcha letters” Is that a lowercase r or a capital T?
Lowercase L and uppercase i are so fucking problematic
I found out recently that the letter captcha aren’t case sensitive most of the time
I don’t think it matters, as that isn’t the real test. Instead, it’s testing whether you are “behaving” as a human. Mouse movements, hesitation etc.
@kambusha@sh.itjust.works Then why does it keep repeating it if I get a tiny detail or a letter wrong?
@technology@lemmy.world @tek@calckey.world @Bonesince1997@lemmy.world
To give you hope… and despair. In the end, it wants to witness your human suffering. Shake that mouse.
Have you considered that maybe you are a robot?
Beep boop
they are evolving
Do it slowly and don’t be consistent, sometimes I select the tile with 3 pixels of the thing its supposed to contain, sometimes I leave 2 or 3 tiles that clearly contain the thing, sometimes I just select a tile that doesn’t even match. Idk, it always works, I suppose the erratic behavior is what shows them I’m human or smth
Yes, every part, even the slivers. And the tires.
IKR! i try and solve the CAPTCHA and theres a tiny 5 nanometer slice of crosswalk on another tile, and i have no idea if i need to click it or not. And then sometimes you don’t have that issue, and you click all the correct tiles, and then it just takes you to another one, and another one, and another one… they really need to improve it
Bingo! You can’t figure out the rules.
Because I think the “rules” are based on what other people did
I select every little bit, which works, but there might be some wiggle room
Eyyyyy we’re fucked 🙃
