Every time a rapist is sad or something bad happens to them, I smile. The worse the event, the happier I am. Death should be their only release from torture. I accept no less and grant no pity, no matter how bad it gets for them.
And it goes double for Trump.
I agree with your sentiment, but nobody deserves torture, no matter how terrible they are or what they’ve done. I can totally accept an argument that society is better without some people in it, but torture isn’t good for anyone, ever, and we should never, ever endorse its use, even when speaking figuratively.
If our goal is to minimize suffering for everyone, intentionally inflicting needless suffering on others is antithetical to that goal, and makes us no better than those we oppose.
As a Dutch guy I feel compelled to apologize for our national olypic committee selecting and sending this douche nozzle to Paris.
Fellow embarrassed Dutch guy chiming in.
Lemmy works in mysterious ways. Have an Upvote from me (for what it’s worth).
Right back atcha, buddy!
That right there is more remorse than I’ve seen from the rapist himself…
He’s still going to be representing the team in the next competition. You guys need to make sure your government knows it’s not ok to send child groomer rapists onto the world stage to represent you. And his teammates seem to be ok with playing aside him again.
“If I can speak for him, after the match we lost, we were disappointed,” Immers said of his teammate Van de Velde. “But we said to each other: ‘Look what we did together. Look how hard we fought with all the attention.’ We stayed together. We cried together off the field and said, ‘OK, let’s just enjoy this moment.’ And we did that. So I’m happy we did it that way.”
Van de Velde and Immers will play together next in the European championships in the Netherlands right after the Olympics, and then the Dutch championships.
Sorry, but this is kind of fucked up. No offense to you personally, but my opinion of the Dutch just took a nosedive.
You dislike the Dutch now because their system of imprisonment is based on rehabilitation?
It’s not even about whether he’s rehabilitated. Even if he never even thinks about molesting another kid he should be shunned and criticized and certainly never put on a global stage. Being rehabilitated doesn’t un-rape a kid.
He’s just a douche, playing a sport. I feel like the attribution of what a big honor this is falls kinda flat when nobody really cares about most athlethes, just the countries that take home the prizes.
And while we’re on this, and leaving the question of his rehabilitation aside, if you don’t believe someone who let’s presume has been changed by the justice system and would be a regular member of society going forward cannot be in the public eye, what’s even the point of going through the justice system to reform people?
The stain of past actions surely never goes anywhere, but if people can’t even go on to live a similar life to an innocent, why bother to claim we want to rehabilitate people at all? Serving 30 years in prison wouldn’t unmurder a person, why not just give the guy the chair and be done with it? Not like he can show his face in public or be considered for his abilities ever again, only for his past.
It’s easy to defend a rehabilitative system of justice when the crimes are petty, but one must defend it in equal measure when the crimes are grave, and even when, in my opinion in this case, it kind of misses. Sometimes bad guys get off too easy, but if they never commit such an act again, did the system not do its job?
Nah, I hate them because their government sends known child rapists to other countries.
When did the conversation switch to the Vatican?
I hope you’re not from the US or the UK because I have some bad news for you…
I’m pretty sure he would be free to drive across Schengen borders to France in a few hours anyway. Having a criminal conviction doesn’t usually revoke the right to free travel.
Just how far will you go to defend child rapists?
Please point me to the words I posted in defence of his actions.
You seriously have a weird obsession with child rapists.
He was imprisoned by the UK, not the Dutch. The Dutch got him out of prison. After a year. For raping a 12-year-old multiple times.
He was first extradited by the Dutch and also imprisoned in the Netherlands (as is normal in international crimes). It’s not like they sprung him from a UK prison.
And exactly how long was he in prison in the Netherlands? For repeatedly raping a 12-year-old girl?
I totally agree with you and fuck this guy, but there is some context to his sentence here in the Netherlands:
One legal distinction is that Van de Velde is unlikely to have been convicted of rape had he stood trial in the Netherlands rather than England. In England, sex with a 12-year-old is rape, regardless of the circumstances: an under-16 cannot legally consent. But after he was extradited to the Netherlands, having serving almost a year of his prison sentence, he was released after less than a month. Under Dutch law, his crime was deemed to be the lesser offence of ontucht, sexual acts that violate social-ethical norms.
Oh I know. It’s disgusting, but it’s the law and you can’t retroactively change it. But they could, at the very least, not let the fucker on their Olympics team.
Do you think the Dutch prison system taught him not to travel internationally to give 12 year olds liquor so he could rape them? Do you think it did so in under a month?
I mean that is the idea of rehabilitation, yeah. I don’t know where you are getting “under a month” from. He was in prison for 13 months and was released on parole, which would probably also include some rehabilitation activities.
Apologies, I had read a source on lemmy saying he’d served 12 months of his sentence in England before being transferred back to the Netherlands, but I can’t confirm it at this time.
edit: Forbes and New York Times say he served a year in Britain and then had his sentence reduced upon repatriation.
And I know Britain didn’t prioritize his rehabilitation in any way.
That’s a very interesting piece of information actually, I didn’t see that anywhere else. Implies they didn’t agree with the UK verdict in the first place.
He wasn’t even allowed to serve his full sentence and be rehabilitated. He was sent home from the UK after a year and the Dutch released him and claimed him rehabed. Meanwhile he refuses to show remorse, refuses to admit he did anything beyond a “mistake”. Also why didn’t he stay in the Olympics village? Cause there are kids there and he’s a child rapist and his own government knows it. If you’re so sure he’s rehabilitated, go all the way and show us you mean it and let him babysit your kids.
Going to the Olympics is a privilege not a right. You lose certain privileges forever when you rape kids.
This has nothing to do with the system.
His victim tried to self harm, and now she gets to see him living his best life at the olympics.
Where is the justice to his victim who gets to live a life of mental hell while he gets to be on TV?
There are plenty of things he could be doing with his life other than the olympics and torturing his victim all over again.
To be fair, seeing all the media coverage of him probably doesn’t help the girl he raped, either. It would be better for all involved parties that he just quietly retired from public life.
How is there no mechanism to remove him? I mean, ideally he shouldn’t have been selected in the first place but under the insanely charitable assumption that it was sloppiness and not active negligence that recruited him.
Isn’t volleyball a team sport? How are his teammates okay with being on a team with a child molester? How are his opponents okay with playing in a game against him? Even if there’s no official mechanism, couldn’t all the players just be like “Nah, fuck that, he goes or I do”. The only time I’ve every knowingly ran into one I couldn’t have been civil towards them if I wanted to let alone actually work together on something.
On what grounds would he be removed though? Is there a reason countries shouldn’t select athletes that have been to prison?
On the grounds that the Olympic Games is mostly a propaganda event and he’s absolutely terrible propaganda?
Well on that same vein, the IOC unilaterally disqualifying a country’s chosen athlete is likely to be even more politically problematic.
Good for the crowd.
Theres a typo in the article where they refer to him as “Ban de Velde” which is hilariously appropriate
I’m on the fence on that. He raped a minor which is not excusable, he possibly ruined her life. How can a person like that be redeemed? Or does he not deserve redemption? He was 19. When I was 19, I was an irresponsible child. There is no proof that he is a pedophile.
There is no proof that he is a pedophile.
Not entirely sure where you’re going with this. He’s not an irredeemable asshole because he might be a pedophile, he’s an irredeemable asshole because he raped a child and that’s indisputable.
Dunno about you, but when I was 19 the thought of raping a child never crossed my mind. He’s spent less than a year in prison, and hasn’t repented for what he did. Redemption has to at the very least come with an understanding that what he did was wrong.
I bet “raping a child” did neither cross his mind, when he did it.
He groomed the child for YEARS before he raped her. It’s wild you’re defending this
Didn’t know that
Sorry I could be wrong, can’t find the article that said the girl was 10 when they met online
There’s a pretty obvious difference between a kid who’s 12, and someone you could reasonably mistake for being an adult (UK age of consent is 16).
He’s spent more than a year in prison.
Also, we can’t take his words for gospel, but atleast he acts as if he’s repented:
“I can’t reverse it, so I have to carry the consequences. It’s the biggest mistake of my life.”
Yes, a whole 13 months. What a punishment for raping a 12-year-old girl over and over.
And that isn’t repenting. Repenting includes an apology for what he did.
He did it multiple times? 🤢
Sadly, yes. I read about what he did and I’m sorry I read about it.
I was stupid at 19 too, but for me that meant letting my at-the-time boyfriend finish inside even though I didn’t know him nearly well enough. Turned out he was slutting out it with randos and never got tested before our relationship. That’s around the stupid I expect at 19.
Rape is a bit fucking beyond that, don’t you think?
No. People who don’t even bother offering anything in the way of apology for their atrocities do not deserve redemption.
You are a disgusting piece of shit.
he raped a minor
no proof that he’s a pedophile
Are you stupid?
Did you know most child rapists don’t fit pedophilia diagnostic critia?
Edit: I read an article on him and he has a 2 year old son. I really hope he isn’t a pedophile.
The majority of child molesters are not pedophiles. It is more about power dynamics / them being an easy target.
If you go by medical definition, that would be hebephilia. Pedophilia is only used with children younger than 11.
The reason in this case could also have been because she was an easy target, the age must not necessarily be the reason.
Repeatedly telling people he’s not technically a pedophile is really not in any way helpful. He raped a 12-year-old multiple times. Who is it hurting to call him a pedophile?
Why do you need to call him something if it’s inaccurate? Just call him a child rapist and be done with it. Words have meanings and there is no reason to use them incorrectly.
As for who it’s hurting: everyone. Pedophila literally has nothing to do with rape. It is a disorder. It’s estimated it effects as much as 3% of the population. The vast majority of those people have never done anything wrong. They were simply born that way. The more people conflate the medical term with crimes the less likely pedophiles are going to seek help or treatment. Nobody wants to risk being outed as part of the most hated group of people on the planet.
If you want to actually help children instead of being angry the best course of action is to destigmatize the disorder so people can get counseling without fear of ruining their lives. Forcing people to bottle up their feelings/urges/etc. does not lead to good outcomes.
Do you think maybe medical terms and terms that the general public use aren’t always the same? Like you know when someone says “I broke my toe” and they just fractured it, people are fine with them saying that even though it wouldn’t medically be considered broken, yes?
Similarly, if someone says “I’m feeling depressed today,” do you think most people assume they have clinical depression? I sure wouldn’t.
And sorry, you are not going to destigmatize pedophilia by doing an “umm… actually” every time a child rapist is called a pedophile.
Only because people like you refuse to change. That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.
People like me? Refuse to change? I didn’t call him a pedophile.
I’m saying read the room.
Hi, friend. I’m sure you have well-meaning intentions by making this comment. As someone who was a survivor of a similar situation such as this, and who also grew into a 19 year old, I can tell you that from a non-clinical perspective, if you are attracted to a child of early puberty age as a 19 year old adult, I don’t think making this assumption is too far off the table. I’m sick and tired of coming on here and listening to this discourse about this volleyball player. Thank you for your two sides to every story, attempt at nuance and empathy for a rapist here. As a survivor of CSA, this has never been granted to me or anyone else I know of that has survived something like this. We need a different reaction to people who do these acts to innocent children.
Fucking finally. Price of shit rapist. Maybe the Dutch will reform their legal system in-time for the next Olympics?
People seem to be more outraged that a rapist is allowed to play sportsball than rapists being allowed to become president.
Im not sure if any legal system would say a felon cant join the olympics. Unless you mean having draconian punishments like the US. Then no, I hope they dont damage their legal system to become that corrupt.
He got 13 months for rape and only one of those months was actually their choice the other 12 was the UK government’s choice. Essentially they thought that one month of imprisonment for rape was acceptable.
They clearly need some change.
The Dutch need a metric fuckton of cultural reform. I’m saying this as a descendant of them in Canada.
Blackface is not an acceptable holiday tradition, and marzipan is concentrated evil. Also fuuuuuuuuck rapists, you get nothing, you fucking LOSE, and you goddamn keep losing as an example to any other idiots, good day sir!
As a woman who has been victim to sexual violence, I fear over punishment of rape because if their life can’t get worse there’s no incentive not to murder their victims. He got off too easily for certain, but the goals of Justice should be to protect the victim and ensure the perpetrators don’t do it again as well as to disincentivize those who may commit such crimes with the least amount of harm done to achieve this.
One month sounds like far too little, but “your life is over” means even if they don’t kill their victim victims and police are both less likely to act on legitimate cases. Most rapes are from someone the victim knows and trusts.
That said the team definitely should’ve chosen to not accept him on it.
Thank you for a level response. In the U.S. especially there are fear and anger knees jerks to some situations where a calm response is an absolute necessity. As always, there is more nuance than there appears.
Yeah one of the common ways victims are dismissed by the police is by asking “do you really want to ruin their life over this”. Now this man repeatedly engaged in statutory rape of an underage individual as I’ve heard, he definitely deserves to be punished more, but also even the guilty and unrepentant deserve a fair hand administering their punishment. But even if they didn’t, that’s the same hand that will punish the repentant and the falsely convicted. The three cannot be separated completely and so we must strive for what we can be comfortable with all three enduring
“do you really want to ruin their life over this"
The problem with this statement here is that the responsibility is shifted to the victim. The victim didn’t mess up the rapist’s life, the rapist did. But this is not an issue of too harsh sentences of rapists but of awful training of police officers.
Nuance has entered the discussion
First of all, sorry this happened to you and thank you for your perspective on this.
There’s a lot of possible middle ways between 13 months and life’s over, though. I’m a strong believer in rehabilitation but there are some necessities, e.g. a sufficient level of remorse which he has not shown as far as I can tell, and basically zero chance of repetition, which to be fair seemingly is the case.
There are some things in my opinion that you should never be able to do as a convicted child rapist even after rehabilitation which includes being a primary care taker of children and representing your country at the Olympics.
e.g. a sufficient level of remorse which he has not shown as far as I can tell, and basically zero chance of repetition, which to be fair seemingly is the case.
It literally is the case: https://time.com/7004041/convicted-rapist-competing-olympics-steven-van-de-velde/
But most people basically want the return of the death sentence without directly killing someone, they just want to take their living and put them under a bridge.
Thank you for pointing this out. As another who believes in rehabilitation, this whole situation made me really uncomfortable. I never wanted to defend the asshole, I just hate the way we view criminals on a large scale.
Blackface is an American sensitivity, not Dutch. And there’s plenty of Dutch people as it is that are pushing for it to be changed because it’s seen as offensive to other countries, so there’s also that.
It’s not offensive to a country. It’s offensive to a group of people, particularly dark-skinned people. It is a form of mockery. Unless you’re trying to tell me that the Dutch people who partake in blackface aren’t doing it to mock black and dark skin people. If that’s the case, please educate me
Here’s a summation from another dutch poster @ClamDrinker@lemmy.world a while back:
I’m sorry, but this is just really kind of disingenuous to start something like this next to a topic such as this. Your experience with one company or something is purely anecdotal and the controversy around Zwarte Piet is also very nuanced to this very day. The kind of nuance someone not from here will not get from a casual google search. For anyone that cares about actually understanding, here’s a rundown:
Many people attributed Zwarte Piet as a fun and good role model for kids, not some kind of caricature clown to laugh at. Literally almost everyone grew up knowing and having a fond enjoyment of Zwarte Piet, like a childhood imaginary friend that always showed up when you needed a smile the most. And that creates a strong desire to set that positivity forth by continuing the tradition. It takes really good reasons to destroy something most people attribute to be part of the greater good of their lives.
We try to understand racism, and strive to effectively reduce it rather than just mindlessly treat symptoms. Many people saw the existence of Zwarte Piet as a way to instill positive experiences to kids who might be isolated from having positive experiences with actual people of color. We know that in part racism comes about from not having enough (or too many bad) real world experiences with people of different skin colors. It is a type of fear of the unknown. As such, this still seems like solid reasoning. (Fun note, rats will also not help other stranger rats with a different fur color to escape even with no direct harm to themselves except when they have already lived alongside aside a rat with that fur color)
Even people of color were not completely on one side, but for the ones that it hurt, it hurt loudly. Black people in the Caribbean (Also part of the Netherlands) still use Zwarte Piet to this day, because they do not care - They do not see the racism in it. Unfortunately there seems to be a correlation between being affected by racism and seeing the racism in Zwarte Piet, as many of us learned as the conversation marched on. And racists definitely did wield Zwarte Piet to make their racism be known. In a world without racism, Zwarte Piet would not be controversial. And many people were not acutely aware of the racism some people of color faced.
The majority has wanted to get rid of it (since about 2018, actually), and most places have more accepted solutions in place now. But this does not mean that many people agree because we think Zwarte Piet is actually inherently racist. It’s because we’ve heard the concerns of people of color and weighed their burden to be more important to relieve than the perceived benefit of tradition and instilling a positive message on people that look different from yourself. It also didn’t help that the vast majority of people that still wanted to overrule those concerns were pretty obviously racist, which pushed even more people over the edge, because we don’t want to hold traditions in place that shield racists and bigots. Some countries could really learn from that.
What was their reasoning for not punishing the guy? I haven’t heard about that yet. And frankly a year for rape also sounds anomalous
Under Dutch law, pressuring a 12 year old into having sex repeatedly (3 times in 2 days) is fornication, not rape. Not making this up, that’s actually their reasoning.
To be fair, of course Durch authorities did not ignore that he was in prison in the UK, so they did not say one month is enough, but 13 months.
How tf?! Thank you for the information, this is somehow even dumber than I thought
To be clear. I’m not defending a rapist. There is some nuance though. The guy was 19 and she said she was 16. They’d been chatting for months, and he flew to the UK for her, believing they were in some sort of relationship. He found out her true age after this.
Was he being naive thinking it’d be alright. Oh yes. Is it still wrong? Definitely. Should be have been punished? Yep.
Is he a pedophile because he had sex with a girl he was in love with and should he be punished for the rest of his life? You tell me.
That’s wrong, he knew she was twelve before he went to the UK. Don’t make shit up.
He found out her true age after this.
He knew before he raped her:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-35861441Judge Francis Sheridan said: "You were a potential Olympian. You had the possibility of a stellar future representing the Netherlands.
“She was a child aged 12. You were fully aware of that fact.”
I think having a child rapist not be in the Olympics isn’t draconian. The Dutch sound a little too lax with their “formication” laws
Daily Beast - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Daily Beast:
MBFC: Left - Credibility: Medium - Factual Reporting: Mixed - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceHe’s only 29, this is gonna haunt him for a LONG LONG time.
It might even ruin his chances for getting to the Olympics and representing his country on the world stage.
We can only hope so.
Not if he stayed home and got a job and lived his life. But being on the world stage and representing your country is a choice and a privilege. It’s not owed to him. He can fuck off to obscurity any time he wants
Not necessarily, fingers crossed.
I’m very conflicted about this whole thing. On the one hand, yeah it’s kind of a scandal and people have every right to be booing him every time he touches the ball.
On the other hand, he was convicted, sentenced, did time and is now back in society apparently showing remorse. People are calling for his career to end and various wishes of death on him. Why can’t he continue his life?
Are we supposed to lock up all criminals forever? Kill them? Just not allow them to follow their chosen career after getting out? Or is it just sports they shouldn’t be allowed to participate in?
It’s a good thing the court of public opinion still has a voice and doesn’t approve of child rapists quite so heartily as the Dutch government. What “time” did he do - like 11months? And he was never remorseful in the slightest. If his only real punishment is going to be him and his country getting booed by the world at the Olympics, I’m happy there’s at least that.
he can continue his life, but get the fuck out of public positions like this if youre a fucking pedo rapist
apparently showing remorse
He showed no remorse. He called it nonsense. He said he made mistakes as a youth. He has not even bothered to offer anything in the way of an apology.
I also saw those statements on his wiki. Also saw some about it being “the worst mistake of his life”. I don’t imagine he would get parole without showing remorse.
You don’t imagine? Well then that proves it. He’s very sorry he raped a 12-year-old girl over and over even though he’s never said so in public.
With this kind of conservative mindset, how can you ever believe the US of A will become anywhere close to progressive? Or aren’t you voting Trump next election?
Is that conservative mindset in the room with us right now?
The “conservative mindset” that someone who raped a 12-year-old over and over should, at the very least, make a public apology before being allowed to join their Olympic team?
You’re right, that’s a total MAGA position. Trump 2024!
Well the way you’re speaking fits that MAGA profile perfectly. How can you believe in a progressive future if you keep spouting conservative beliefs? Everything you have said, in this thread, is the typical MAGA barf. Because it sounds like you don’t believe in governments.
Absolutely. We all know what big fans of public apologies MAGA people are.
And, of course, suggesting someone who raped a 12-year-old girl multiple times should make a public apology before being allowed on an Olympic volleyball team definitely means I don’t believe in governments.
It’s amazing how you’ve gotten me totally right so far.
He didn’t even serve his full sentence. You can’t call him reformed that way
did time and is now back in society apparently showing remorse.
Nope, neither of those.
“I can’t reverse it, so I have to carry the consequences. It’s the biggest mistake of my life.”
Source: The article linked in the OP
If that’s not remorse, I don’t know what is.
Never apologiest and he only ever talks about how it is bad for him. Remorse it is not.
Remorse: “I am sorry for what I did and the impact it had on the victim. I made stupid choices that hurt another person, and while I can never take that back, I will seek to do better so no one needs to suffer from my actions again.”
Not sorry you did it, just sorry you got caught: “I can’t reverse it, so I have to carry the consequences. It’s the biggest mistake of my life.”
What do you mean? He served 13 months and got out on parole. He’s publicly expressed remorse, but that isn’t exactly conclusive. I assume there would have been some genuine remorse inside, otherwise there would be no parole.
My point is, if you stop anyone who has been to jail returning to normal society at all, then why let them out at all? You might as well just put every criminal in jail for life, or just kill them straight away.
You might as well just put every criminal in jail for life, or just kill them straight away.
Just the child rapists is fine with me. There’s no reforming that.
On the other hand, he was convicted, sentenced, did time and is now back in society apparently showing remorse.
He flew to England, raped a 12 yo, got convicted by the English for 4 years. He was deported back to Netherlands, they dropped it to 1 year.
This isn’t justice.
I’m not conflicted. I’m not saying he should be in jail forever. But I’m also saying it’s clear that he shouldn’t be representing his country on the world stage. That’s a privilege you should lose forever when you rape a child. Cause remember, going to the Olympics is a privilege, not a right. It’s like yeah he served your time, would you let him babysit your daughter now then? Or let him hang out at schools? You gotta forgive, but you’re stupid if you forget
There’s a system in place for that. It’s called ‘verklaring omtrent gedrag’. For many jobs and positions you need this certificate of conduct in order to apply. The ministry of justice will not hand out the certificate if your crime is related to the position you apply for. This means he would probably never be allowed to work at a school for instance.
It’s simple really.
His judgement, sentencing and punishment satisfy the needs of the law. the law has done it’s part (arguably terribly in this case) and is at rest.
This is vastly different than the judgement bright forth by the court of public opinion. They are not so forgiving.
Perhaps that’s something the dude should have thought about before doing what he did
How about “not put them representing your country, where other people might understand that as an endorsement as see him as a role model”.
There is shades of grey between “killing him” and “send him to the Olympics”.
Why can’t he continue his life?
Because he raped a child. The only olympic event he should have been allowed to participate in was competitive shooting, as a target.
First of all, not all crimes are the same nor should be treated equally.
Secondly, he raped a 12 year old, and that’s unredeemable in a lot of people’s book.
I agree with you pretty much on all points.
I am also conflicted.
It’s up to courts and parole boards to determine what punishments are appropriate, given the context of the crimes.
I don’t like the guy, and of course his crime was repugnant, but I can still acknowledge that he’s one of the best volleyball players in the world. These two opinions are incongruous and yet, they exist at the same time.
My thought is more along the lines of, “Regardless of his talent level, is this really the kind of person that his country wants representing them on the world stage?”
Like, okay even if he’s the absolute best by an order of magnitude…if he were from my country, I’d rather lose every match than win on the talents of someone like that.
For me, there’s a difference between rehabilitation and letting someone represent your country at the olympics. Athletes don’t have to be perfect but to a certain extent they are ambassadors of their country and role models.
This paired with him not staying in prison for long because the Dutch legal system is fucking abysmal is reason enough for me to celebrate that he’s out.
On the other hand, he was convicted, sentenced, did time and is now back in society apparently showing remorse.
He hardly did any time at all. Frankly you do more time for a parking ticket. Also when did he show remorse like whenever has he ever shown any remorse at all?
only if booing was able to remove pedophile and rapist politicians from power too
I mean, using your voice to influence the outcome of politics is kind of how a democracy works. Ideally, at least. But I agree with your sentiment.
Also, for a second I imagined a scenario where voting is done by small groups in booths, booing for the politicians they don’t like and clapping for the ones they like, and then someone would watch the tapes and just count how many people booed and clapped at every politician.
except a single billionaire has more effect on the outcome of an election than probably hundreds of thousands of normal income citizens
except a single billionaire has more effect on the outcome of an election than probably hundreds of thousands of normal income citizens voting
FTFY
Start with organizing, protesting, and striking. Continue escalating as needed until they bend to our will. Voting is a compromise that we accepted instead of a revolution.
yay!
