- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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The crew should come back on the Dragon and Boeing be required to solve the problems and carry out another test flight. It is unacceptable that Boeing wants to bring the astronauts back without understanding some of the failures on the Starliner.
Another test flight will be a bit of a problem. There are no spare Atlas V rockets. They will either have to convince Amazon to give up one of theirs or they will have to launch one of the missions on Vulcan Centaur, which is not currently crew rated.
or they will have to launch one of the missions on Vulcan Centaur, which is not currently crew rated.
That’s okay; the next Starliner test flight clearly shouldn’t be crew rated either!
I’m sure they understand the problems, and they understand that solving them would eat into their profits
This is exactly it for me. A problem is one thing, a problem can be addressed. But a problem whose core cause is not understood can’t be quantified or addressed.
So you have a thruster pack that’s overheating and they don’t even know why, you have helium that’s leaking and they don’t even know why, so I ask why is it even a question what to do?
I am among other things a private pilot, I fly little propeller airplanes around for fun. Lots of private pilots do stupid stuff, and some get killed as a result. I’m talking for example pilots who want to get back to their home airport, so they fly over five airports that all sell fuel without landing but then run out of gas and crash half a mile from their home airport. So there is a saying, before you do anything risky, consider how stupid you will look in the NTSB report if it doesn’t work out. And the pilot who intentionally flew below fuel minimums looks pretty damn stupid, destroyed a $100,000 airplane and lost his life so he could save 20 bucks on cheaper gas.
Point is, the same principle applies to all of the recent space disasters. Challenger was obviously not the right decision to launch. Columbia obviously a serious risk that was ignored. And that brings us to Starliner, we have serious fundamental problems that could definitely lead to a loss of ship and crew situation and we don’t even understand what is causing those problems. Now imagine Starliner fails. How stupid will that decision look? Probably even dumber than Columbia or Challenger, because unlike those two disasters we know ahead of time that something is very wrong.
Three Starliner mission managers had key roles on Columbia’s ill-fated final flight.
I was gonna take issue with that statement until i read this. Causality does seem more probable.
In this particular situation, if Boeing says it’s safe, I would be inclined to trust them, because if they make the return happen, and it fails, Boeing is done fore. As a crew member though, I would pass for sure and wait for a Dragon
They could feel like there’s nothing more to lose if it doesn’t make it back but they might be able to claw their way back if it succeeds. “They” being the individuals making the recommendation, not the individuals more concerned about the company overall. If Boeing decides the spaceflight industry isn’t worth the risks, a downsize or complete closing of that part of the company could cost the jobs of those who are the experts in this situation.
So it might not be a case of “we think it’s safe to return”. It might be “returning safely is the only scenario where we aren’t fucked, so let’s roll the dice”.
That’s a very valid point
I am not sure that businesses like Boeing make risk decisions like that. You would think that they would only take a risk that they know they can win, but many times they take a risk and hope that the dice land their way. This would be lives at risk, with calculations assessed by people with very poor records with such assessments.
They already couldn’t afford this situation, and look where they are.
What’s an improbable “acceptable risk” to them may not be good enough for NASA, especially if they don’t really understand what’s wrong.
Step 1. Fire Boeing.
Step 2. Fucking FUND NASA.
Step 3. NASA builds space stuff that works.
YES
To be fair, some work has always been outsourced.
Like the o rings…
I like my humor like I like my NASA space vehicles - outsourced to the lowest bidder.
Boeing was the most expensive bidder for this program.
Dark 😮
Step 4. NASA builds planes that work (on the side).
If BASA build aircraft they would have to throw it all away at the end of the flight.
Need better funding but they absolutely shouldn’t be building spacecraft, they are too scared of getting yelled at to innovate, and innovation is required.
We need to support and upgrade sls
s/Fire/Nationalize/
They tried being more actively involved with the Aries I and Aries V rockets, but they got really bogged down to the point where Obama started commercial crew. Aries V eventually evolved into SLS, but with low capability and a very long schedule. And for better or for worse, SLS is getting lots of funding.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_I https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Crew_Program
I’ve worked for several aerospace companies including Boeing. I have nothing but contempt and hatred for Boeing and couldn’t get out of there fast enough. Management is garbage, safety comes second to schedule, people are treated like disposable cogs, but I would trust Boeing over NASA. I work with a lot of NASA and ex-NASA people right now on a couple major projects. Dear god NASA upper management makes me want to put my head through a wall! The insufferable sense of superiority trying to tell us “how things are done”. Bro, how is SLS coming? That’s what I thought, shut your mouth and stop pretending like you are the Apple of space systems. Luckily, most of the ground level people at NASA are more down to earth (pardon the puns) and easier to work with.
This is an excellent article. I’m glad they took time to go into the history of these folks.
Shitty Boeing aside, how are they eating up there? I don’t know anything about space station food logistics, but if a planned week has turned into ten weeks, surely there must be a resource strain.
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They eat whichever astronaut dies first.
Just don’t question the cause of death, because it will be blunt force trauma
I was curious about this same thing.
Can’t wait to see this project too in Google’s graveyard.
Ah, the old lemmy switcharoo
Hold my Reddit account I’m going in!
Don’t they have their own version of MREs they use for situations like this?
They just send up more food.
Imagine that Uber Eats bill.
Fr. Imagine the expected tip.
Instructions: please ring door bell
Please leave anywhere near the airlock. Pls don’t ring or knock, dogs bark.
they must have a significant food bank supply, including some kind of reserve replacement nutrients in the event shit goes wrong. That or an incredibly redundant delivery network.
Cygnus, last mission launched on 4 August 2024.
I though I read they’re currently housed in the ISS so they should have reserves. I initially thought they were stuck in their launch vehicle.
The question facing NASA’s leadership today? Should the two astronauts return to Earth from the International Space Station in Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft, with its history of thruster failures and helium leaks, or should they come home on a SpaceX Dragon capsule?
The question facing NASA’s leadership today? Should the two astronauts return to Earth…
“Alright, just hear me out…” -Boeing
The lives of two government employees are in the balance, and taxpayers paid Boeing for most of the Starliner spacecraft’s development costs.
Money money money…
Will those Astronauts get overtime pay?
Unfortunately they’ve been moving backwards across the time zones, resulting in them owing NASA money
