Don’t trust their range claims, most of the time they are exaggerated and only able to get that range on a perfect day doing constant 45mph without hills.
Do you have a reliable place to charge it?
If you don’t have a personal parking place, and cannot install a charger at said place, trusting you have the range you need gets difficult, and expensive. As you have to rely on public chargers that are not very reliable, and worse for battery longevity (level 3 chargers)
Speaking of range. What range do you actually NEED? My opinion is the minimum range should be double the normal daily commute, as most level 2 chargers can add ~18 miles/he charging (overnight charge means 144 miles charge).
Double your commute gives you a buffer for the heater, or the grocery run after work. For most people this is only 80 miles… which almost every electric only car can do without issues.
Is the cost worth the vehicle?
Buying new is expensive, buying used can be risky. Do your research thoroughly and you’ll be able to decide what fits what you NEED (and that answer may easily be a used ICE vehicle instead)
I’ve had a full electric vehicle for 5+ years now as my daily. But I have always had a personal parking place, with a level 2 charger.
I consider electric only to be a commuter car at best. It’s not going to be able to do a road trip. And depending on the car and the commute may even not be able to do a grocery run after work some days.
If you have another car that is ICE that you can keep for those times, cool. Or if you are ok with planning, and rent a car when you want to do a road trip, great.
Personally I suggest a plug in hybrid for anyone who can only have one car, and is considering going electric. Prius prime, Chevy volt, Chrysler Pacifica are the ones that have enough range for a short commute, the rest are trying but just haven’t gotten there yet.
I’ve found the range is better than what they claim for stop and go city driving due to regen braking. But otherwise the range estimate is about as accurate as the miles per gallon estimate on a gas car.
It is definitely way cheaper to own than a gas car.
Teslas are exaggerated, the rest of the market is dead on for range estimates. EVs are great for road trips, you have to stop for bathroom breaks anyway. L1 chargers at home are fine and L2 chargers get you through every day perfectly fine. You only really need L3 for road trips.
Mine is not a Tesla, and its range is exaggerated… Or at least its range has a hidden asterisk that would read “under ideal conditions with a gentle driving style.” It self-adjusts based on my recent driving history, and I mostly don’t let the battery get low enough that I have to care about how precise it is… But it definitely skews heavily optimistic, especially when I first bought the car. It’s roughly the same in that regard as a Tesla is, according to the Tesla drivers I know.
Spot on. Another thing to consider is weather. EVs perform worse in cold weather - lower ranger and slower charging. Some manufacturers are worse than others. Preconditioning while plugged in is super helpful in below freezing temperatures and use the heated seats and heated steering wheel instead of climate control if you can.
Just needs some research if you live somewhere where below freezing temperatures occur at times in a year. Absolutely not a reason to avoid EVs altogether, just know the limitations, what to expect, and how to best mitigate some of the limitations.
Double your commute gives you a buffer for the heater, or the grocery run after work. For most people this is only 80 miles… which almost every electric only car can do without issues.
Is the cost worth the vehicle?
This is where I get grumpy. I feel like that kind of range is a different category of vehicle, and it should be significantly cheaper than an ICEV, since it means I need to plan around the range.
I realize it’s the size of the battery pack, so it isn’t where most of the cost of the vehicle comes from, but still.
When it’s time to replace my current vehicle, I’ll probably go PHEV. But ideally public transit will be solved, so I won’t need to. 🤣
Because I need to drive 300 miles every few months and a car I own that can do that is cheaper than a car that can’t and renting something that can for the few times I need it. Rental cars are expensive and most come with per mile charges on top of the daily rate.
It takes less than twenty minutes to charge enough to make that in any modern ev. Unless you’re filling up on gas before your trips anyway, you’re still gonna have to stop. The difference in time is negligible.
Gas cars fill even faster. Many EVs don’t charge at high speeds, and not all chargers support high speeds even if the car can. Evs do have the advantage of being fully charged before you leave, so trips that can be done on one charge never need to stop. However longer trips have issues.
Don’t forget that EV chargers are not nearly as common as gasoline. It is rare that someone needs to plan gas stops on a trip, when the gauge gets down to 1/4 you stop at the next town is the rule most people use (there is variation, those who use 1/8 as the rule sometimes run out of gas, some use 1/2). For EV trips you still have to plan your charging stops, particularly if you are getting off the well traveled path - you can still make most trips but you better how the chargers are working when you get there
Not even 20 minutes. If you are doing 300 miles, you probably only need to sit on the charger for maybe an extra 100 miles of charge. That is maybe 5-10 minutes.
Or if you get something like the Equinox EV, you may not have to charge during that trip at all.
A vehicle that can do a daily commute for 7k would be perfect. If you’re talking about the Fiat 500e, it’s 34k in my region. The cheapest used I can see is 22k.
Do you really NEED to be able to drive 300 miles every day? If so, battery isn’t likely for you. And if you don’t need to, why cry that it can’t?
This comes across as hostile.
My complaint is price points. When I get reduced range, I feel like I should pay less. An EV with a range of 120km in the winter for 7k would be amazing. It’d be a decent deal up until 15k. After that, the apparent value drops off. Like I said in my post, a PHEV feels like better value.
Yup I agree for most people the phev is much more logical. Though the complexity comes with lessened reliability and more costly repairs.
I also agree that the low mile capable ev are a bit over priced. I bought the 500e with 20k miles.
It has 65k now and I could probably sell it for the same 7k I bought it for.
as most level 2 chargers can add ~18 miles/he charging (overnight charge means 144 miles charge).
Level 2 EVSEs (the charger is actually in the car) have a wide cross-section of power delivery. Portable units are usually limited to ~20 amps and will do this level of charge. Installed units with a sufficient circuit can charge at a rate 40 - 60 miles / hour. They are also considerably more expensive and should be installed by an electrician (adding more cost).
For the record, Level 1 EVSE’s (that plug into a US 110v outlet) only do 3 - 5 miles/hour. Important to know for US renters who might not be able to get a 220v circuit to their parking spot.
Its not to high or bad for them, it’s more like it just pushes the system to its max over and over. They are designed for fast charging.
Its like stretching a rubber band that can go to 3ft over and over. Its part of its design, but it will cause more wear and tear then just stretching it a few inches.
Make sure that the car matches your expectations.
Don’t trust their range claims, most of the time they are exaggerated and only able to get that range on a perfect day doing constant 45mph without hills.
Do you have a reliable place to charge it? If you don’t have a personal parking place, and cannot install a charger at said place, trusting you have the range you need gets difficult, and expensive. As you have to rely on public chargers that are not very reliable, and worse for battery longevity (level 3 chargers)
Speaking of range. What range do you actually NEED? My opinion is the minimum range should be double the normal daily commute, as most level 2 chargers can add ~18 miles/he charging (overnight charge means 144 miles charge). Double your commute gives you a buffer for the heater, or the grocery run after work. For most people this is only 80 miles… which almost every electric only car can do without issues.
Is the cost worth the vehicle? Buying new is expensive, buying used can be risky. Do your research thoroughly and you’ll be able to decide what fits what you NEED (and that answer may easily be a used ICE vehicle instead)
I’ve had a full electric vehicle for 5+ years now as my daily. But I have always had a personal parking place, with a level 2 charger. I consider electric only to be a commuter car at best. It’s not going to be able to do a road trip. And depending on the car and the commute may even not be able to do a grocery run after work some days. If you have another car that is ICE that you can keep for those times, cool. Or if you are ok with planning, and rent a car when you want to do a road trip, great.
Personally I suggest a plug in hybrid for anyone who can only have one car, and is considering going electric. Prius prime, Chevy volt, Chrysler Pacifica are the ones that have enough range for a short commute, the rest are trying but just haven’t gotten there yet.
I’ve found the range is better than what they claim for stop and go city driving due to regen braking. But otherwise the range estimate is about as accurate as the miles per gallon estimate on a gas car.
It is definitely way cheaper to own than a gas car.
Teslas are exaggerated, the rest of the market is dead on for range estimates. EVs are great for road trips, you have to stop for bathroom breaks anyway. L1 chargers at home are fine and L2 chargers get you through every day perfectly fine. You only really need L3 for road trips.
Mine is not a Tesla, and its range is exaggerated… Or at least its range has a hidden asterisk that would read “under ideal conditions with a gentle driving style.” It self-adjusts based on my recent driving history, and I mostly don’t let the battery get low enough that I have to care about how precise it is… But it definitely skews heavily optimistic, especially when I first bought the car. It’s roughly the same in that regard as a Tesla is, according to the Tesla drivers I know.
Spot on. Another thing to consider is weather. EVs perform worse in cold weather - lower ranger and slower charging. Some manufacturers are worse than others. Preconditioning while plugged in is super helpful in below freezing temperatures and use the heated seats and heated steering wheel instead of climate control if you can.
Just needs some research if you live somewhere where below freezing temperatures occur at times in a year. Absolutely not a reason to avoid EVs altogether, just know the limitations, what to expect, and how to best mitigate some of the limitations.
This is where I get grumpy. I feel like that kind of range is a different category of vehicle, and it should be significantly cheaper than an ICEV, since it means I need to plan around the range.
I realize it’s the size of the battery pack, so it isn’t where most of the cost of the vehicle comes from, but still.
When it’s time to replace my current vehicle, I’ll probably go PHEV. But ideally public transit will be solved, so I won’t need to. 🤣
That kind of range is a different vehicle. My 500e I bought for 7k. It’s the perfect commuter.
Do you really NEED to be able to drive 300 miles every day? If so, battery isn’t likely for you. And if you don’t need to, why cry that it can’t?
Because I need to drive 300 miles every few months and a car I own that can do that is cheaper than a car that can’t and renting something that can for the few times I need it. Rental cars are expensive and most come with per mile charges on top of the daily rate.
It takes less than twenty minutes to charge enough to make that in any modern ev. Unless you’re filling up on gas before your trips anyway, you’re still gonna have to stop. The difference in time is negligible.
Gas cars fill even faster. Many EVs don’t charge at high speeds, and not all chargers support high speeds even if the car can. Evs do have the advantage of being fully charged before you leave, so trips that can be done on one charge never need to stop. However longer trips have issues.
Don’t forget that EV chargers are not nearly as common as gasoline. It is rare that someone needs to plan gas stops on a trip, when the gauge gets down to 1/4 you stop at the next town is the rule most people use (there is variation, those who use 1/8 as the rule sometimes run out of gas, some use 1/2). For EV trips you still have to plan your charging stops, particularly if you are getting off the well traveled path - you can still make most trips but you better how the chargers are working when you get there
Not even 20 minutes. If you are doing 300 miles, you probably only need to sit on the charger for maybe an extra 100 miles of charge. That is maybe 5-10 minutes.
Or if you get something like the Equinox EV, you may not have to charge during that trip at all.
A vehicle that can do a daily commute for 7k would be perfect. If you’re talking about the Fiat 500e, it’s 34k in my region. The cheapest used I can see is 22k.
This comes across as hostile.
My complaint is price points. When I get reduced range, I feel like I should pay less. An EV with a range of 120km in the winter for 7k would be amazing. It’d be a decent deal up until 15k. After that, the apparent value drops off. Like I said in my post, a PHEV feels like better value.
Yup I agree for most people the phev is much more logical. Though the complexity comes with lessened reliability and more costly repairs.
I also agree that the low mile capable ev are a bit over priced. I bought the 500e with 20k miles. It has 65k now and I could probably sell it for the same 7k I bought it for.
If you buy a PHEV be prepared for the cost of a gas car and an EV combined
Level 2 EVSEs (the charger is actually in the car) have a wide cross-section of power delivery. Portable units are usually limited to ~20 amps and will do this level of charge. Installed units with a sufficient circuit can charge at a rate 40 - 60 miles / hour. They are also considerably more expensive and should be installed by an electrician (adding more cost).
For the record, Level 1 EVSE’s (that plug into a US 110v outlet) only do 3 - 5 miles/hour. Important to know for US renters who might not be able to get a 220v circuit to their parking spot.
If you’re pushing for the lowest range, lowest cost EV that covers your daily needs, it will be a commuter-only car.
Is this because the power on fast charges is too high and bad for batteries in the long run?
Its not to high or bad for them, it’s more like it just pushes the system to its max over and over. They are designed for fast charging.
Its like stretching a rubber band that can go to 3ft over and over. Its part of its design, but it will cause more wear and tear then just stretching it a few inches.
Not "too high"technically. But does put more load on the battery, causing more dendritic growth in the cells.
This wall of text is like an EV prophylactic