I need a new car, and I really want to go full electric. I’m wondering if anyone regrets buying one? What are the downsides?
Yeah, I bought a Tesla and now regret it because Elon is a dipshit.
That said, I’ve gone over 38,000 miles for less than $900 in electricity. I haven’t had to deal with oil changes or any other maintenance items other than tire rotations and tire replacement (the latter was of my own accord they actually said I didn’t need to yet, at the time).
I recently did a nearly 4hr trip with no need to charge on the way, and at my destination basically filled back up in something like 25 minutes while checking in to my hotel. So, no range anxiety for me.
The ride is nice, the features are helpful to me, and I have had no other issues with the vehicle.
So if it weren’t for Elon I’d love it. I still like it, but I just hate being seen in it now. It’s paid off so the financial cost of getting some other EV doesn’t make a ton of sense right now, so I guess I’ll just drive it until it dies…which at this rate might be a long-ass time.
This is what I’ll now show to lemmy when they again run in their denial circles about tesla being a bad car, or the company going bankrupt soon.
I like the electric part.
What I don’t like is that it’s a steaming heap of spy-ware on wheels with no opt-out ability.
Which may lead to more expensive insurance depending on your driving style, or could be abused for even more nefarious reasons.
The spyware you are mentioning is in gas cars too. It isn’t exclusive to EVs it is a problem with all new cars.
I disabled the OnStar unit on mine and don’t use any of it’s associated apps.
Make sure that the car matches your expectations.
Don’t trust their range claims, most of the time they are exaggerated and only able to get that range on a perfect day doing constant 45mph without hills.
Do you have a reliable place to charge it? If you don’t have a personal parking place, and cannot install a charger at said place, trusting you have the range you need gets difficult, and expensive. As you have to rely on public chargers that are not very reliable, and worse for battery longevity (level 3 chargers)
Speaking of range. What range do you actually NEED? My opinion is the minimum range should be double the normal daily commute, as most level 2 chargers can add ~18 miles/he charging (overnight charge means 144 miles charge). Double your commute gives you a buffer for the heater, or the grocery run after work. For most people this is only 80 miles… which almost every electric only car can do without issues.
Is the cost worth the vehicle? Buying new is expensive, buying used can be risky. Do your research thoroughly and you’ll be able to decide what fits what you NEED (and that answer may easily be a used ICE vehicle instead)
I’ve had a full electric vehicle for 5+ years now as my daily. But I have always had a personal parking place, with a level 2 charger. I consider electric only to be a commuter car at best. It’s not going to be able to do a road trip. And depending on the car and the commute may even not be able to do a grocery run after work some days. If you have another car that is ICE that you can keep for those times, cool. Or if you are ok with planning, and rent a car when you want to do a road trip, great.
Personally I suggest a plug in hybrid for anyone who can only have one car, and is considering going electric. Prius prime, Chevy volt, Chrysler Pacifica are the ones that have enough range for a short commute, the rest are trying but just haven’t gotten there yet.
I’ve found the range is better than what they claim for stop and go city driving due to regen braking. But otherwise the range estimate is about as accurate as the miles per gallon estimate on a gas car.
It is definitely way cheaper to own than a gas car.
Spot on. Another thing to consider is weather. EVs perform worse in cold weather - lower ranger and slower charging. Some manufacturers are worse than others. Preconditioning while plugged in is super helpful in below freezing temperatures and use the heated seats and heated steering wheel instead of climate control if you can.
Just needs some research if you live somewhere where below freezing temperatures occur at times in a year. Absolutely not a reason to avoid EVs altogether, just know the limitations, what to expect, and how to best mitigate some of the limitations.
Teslas are exaggerated, the rest of the market is dead on for range estimates. EVs are great for road trips, you have to stop for bathroom breaks anyway. L1 chargers at home are fine and L2 chargers get you through every day perfectly fine. You only really need L3 for road trips.
Mine is not a Tesla, and its range is exaggerated… Or at least its range has a hidden asterisk that would read “under ideal conditions with a gentle driving style.” It self-adjusts based on my recent driving history, and I mostly don’t let the battery get low enough that I have to care about how precise it is… But it definitely skews heavily optimistic, especially when I first bought the car. It’s roughly the same in that regard as a Tesla is, according to the Tesla drivers I know.
Double your commute gives you a buffer for the heater, or the grocery run after work. For most people this is only 80 miles… which almost every electric only car can do without issues.
Is the cost worth the vehicle?
This is where I get grumpy. I feel like that kind of range is a different category of vehicle, and it should be significantly cheaper than an ICEV, since it means I need to plan around the range.
I realize it’s the size of the battery pack, so it isn’t where most of the cost of the vehicle comes from, but still.
When it’s time to replace my current vehicle, I’ll probably go PHEV. But ideally public transit will be solved, so I won’t need to. 🤣
That kind of range is a different vehicle. My 500e I bought for 7k. It’s the perfect commuter.
Do you really NEED to be able to drive 300 miles every day? If so, battery isn’t likely for you. And if you don’t need to, why cry that it can’t?
if you don’t need to, why cry that it can’t?
Because I need to drive 300 miles every few months and a car I own that can do that is cheaper than a car that can’t and renting something that can for the few times I need it. Rental cars are expensive and most come with per mile charges on top of the daily rate.
It takes less than twenty minutes to charge enough to make that in any modern ev. Unless you’re filling up on gas before your trips anyway, you’re still gonna have to stop. The difference in time is negligible.
Gas cars fill even faster. Many EVs don’t charge at high speeds, and not all chargers support high speeds even if the car can. Evs do have the advantage of being fully charged before you leave, so trips that can be done on one charge never need to stop. However longer trips have issues.
Don’t forget that EV chargers are not nearly as common as gasoline. It is rare that someone needs to plan gas stops on a trip, when the gauge gets down to 1/4 you stop at the next town is the rule most people use (there is variation, those who use 1/8 as the rule sometimes run out of gas, some use 1/2). For EV trips you still have to plan your charging stops, particularly if you are getting off the well traveled path - you can still make most trips but you better how the chargers are working when you get there
Not even 20 minutes. If you are doing 300 miles, you probably only need to sit on the charger for maybe an extra 100 miles of charge. That is maybe 5-10 minutes.
Or if you get something like the Equinox EV, you may not have to charge during that trip at all.
My 500e I bought for 7k
A vehicle that can do a daily commute for 7k would be perfect. If you’re talking about the Fiat 500e, it’s 34k in my region. The cheapest used I can see is 22k.
Do you really NEED to be able to drive 300 miles every day? If so, battery isn’t likely for you. And if you don’t need to, why cry that it can’t?
This comes across as hostile.
My complaint is price points. When I get reduced range, I feel like I should pay less. An EV with a range of 120km in the winter for 7k would be amazing. It’d be a decent deal up until 15k. After that, the apparent value drops off. Like I said in my post, a PHEV feels like better value.
Yup I agree for most people the phev is much more logical. Though the complexity comes with lessened reliability and more costly repairs.
I also agree that the low mile capable ev are a bit over priced. I bought the 500e with 20k miles. It has 65k now and I could probably sell it for the same 7k I bought it for.
If you buy a PHEV be prepared for the cost of a gas car and an EV combined
as most level 2 chargers can add ~18 miles/he charging (overnight charge means 144 miles charge).
Level 2 EVSEs (the charger is actually in the car) have a wide cross-section of power delivery. Portable units are usually limited to ~20 amps and will do this level of charge. Installed units with a sufficient circuit can charge at a rate 40 - 60 miles / hour. They are also considerably more expensive and should be installed by an electrician (adding more cost).
For the record, Level 1 EVSE’s (that plug into a US 110v outlet) only do 3 - 5 miles/hour. Important to know for US renters who might not be able to get a 220v circuit to their parking spot.
If you’re pushing for the lowest range, lowest cost EV that covers your daily needs, it will be a commuter-only car.
worse for battery longevity (level 3 chargers)
Is this because the power on fast charges is too high and bad for batteries in the long run?
Not "too high"technically. But does put more load on the battery, causing more dendritic growth in the cells.
Its not to high or bad for them, it’s more like it just pushes the system to its max over and over. They are designed for fast charging.
Its like stretching a rubber band that can go to 3ft over and over. Its part of its design, but it will cause more wear and tear then just stretching it a few inches.
This wall of text is like an EV prophylactic
I own 2 Teslas and an electric lawnmower since 2018 and I live in the Arctic Chicago area. No regrets besides Elon turning out to be a shitlord.
I am exactly you except I live in the south.
Enjoy the nice weather then, unless you’re so far south your life is at risk… In which case please don’t store your lithium batteries where you store your standing water.
I’ve gone from the Chevy Volt, to the Bolt, to a Polestar 2, to a Ford Mach E. 7 years in EVs, around 100k miles, with no regrets and no intention of going back to ICE.
I’m not even sure what the downsides are. Maybe longer trips require a tiny bit more planning? The infotainment systems do all the work though, telling me where to stop and how long to charge.
Dang 4 cars in 7 years?
I haven’t regretted it. Did a road trip across the country. Takes more planning because chargers are more sparse than gas stations, but totally doable. Having a place to charge is a must. I lived in an apartment complex without charging and REALLY had to plan my charging sessions or it could get stuck in the parking garage.
Yeah, I stayed with my parents for a few months while I was house hunting and being limited to Level 1 charging was challenging. I couldn’t recover a full commute’s worth of charge overnight and would start each day with progressively less charge, so I’d have to swing by a L3 charger once a week or so. Still cheaper than gas though.
Privacy and security concerns, most of them are like big tech on wheels. See Telsa and others spying on users during intimate moments. Also most have major security vulnerabilities.
This is the case with all newer cars. If you’re avoiding EVs for privacy then the same reason applies to any car with OnStar, OTA updates, apps for your phone (remote start, locate, etc.) Or pretty much any car made in the last 10 years or more.
I definitely appreciate wanting to protect your privacy and will readily acknowledge that any EV will make that a problem. But almost every car made since the Tesla Roadster has the same problems. Now, if we could get our respective governments to pass laws stopping this BS, that would be really nice.
I love mine, Chevy bolt. The biggest downside is that you need to plan road trips more carefully with them, and road trips will just take longer. Once you accept that, it’s actually kind of nice to periodically take 20-30 minute breaks while on a trip.
These problems are greatly alleviated if you also have a fossil fuel car. My partner has a gas car, so if we’re just going for a weekend or there aren’t good charging options, we just take the gas car so we don’t have to worry about charging.
EV driver working in automotive industry here. Based in N Europe, so take my words with a pinch of salt for other geos.
If you can charge at home, don’t regularly drive very long distances and are OK with a smaller boot space EVs are a complete no-brainer.
If not all of these are true, the convenience depends a lot on where you live. In Northern Europe, UK and northern parts of Central Europe public charging networks are pretty good although Norway is starting to see queuing to be a thing.
In the US the only good charging network is Tesla’s, which means only NACS cars can charge there - EU regulator has done a good job here standardising to CCS2.
Living with an EV does require some changes in behavior. You need to think about tomorrow’s needs today to have the right SOC for the next long trip or choose your shopping and dining options to facilitate charging. For me, this is perfectly OK and the pleasure of driving an EV more than compensates for the mild inconvenience. That said, the amount of inconvenience is dependent on the first three factors and the country you live in.
When choosing your car, remember that you can’t normally use the top and bottom 20% of your battery (depending a bit on the chemistry), which is reflected in day-to-day range.
Feel free to ask anything related to EVs, batteries, chargers or charging networks.
Downsides: Have to go to a gas station to find a squeegee to clean the windows.
Upsides: You have no other reason to go to a gas station.
I bought my very own gas station squeegee at a car parts store . Life-changing events.
I better get mine, soon.
What about for gas station sushi?
Heh. Now that’s a party.
Good name for a band.
No regrets, but I do acknowledge that it’s very different and has different challenges. The usual worries before buying about range, mileage, battery drainage, top speed, maintenance fees, towing capability etc, do not actually exist. I understand why people worry, but no, they are not actual issues.
In reality: Software. That’s an issue. Car mechanics do not know how to service software. Doesn’t matter if it’s a subscription to a service or a mandatory but malfunctioning pressure valve, it’s software and they don’t know about it. It usually not a serious issue, but it might be, especially for cars with a lot of gimmicks and shit. This issue also exist with new fossil fueled cars as well. For most part, it can be ignored.
The charger at home may be an issue. (Maybe i. Europe mostly?) Some cars only accept voltages with a very low resistance. Both Renault and Tesla require a better grounding than the building code in most countries. It’s not costly to fix, and it’s a one time fix, but it may be a surprise…(that you need to expand on your electric circuit just for this), but you should have done anyway).
I will acknowledge that range is a downside. Not in everyday use, but for longer trips, you will have to plan your trip according to charging. It has never been an issue for me, because I generally never drive that long without pause anyway. Time it to to your breaks is all there is to it.
For a comuter car with home charging, you will have absolutely no issues in switching. It does have many more surprising positives than negatives. Like, never having to set foot on a gas station. Never mind the cost, but the time spent on going there or stopping on your commute to do it, or holding the nozzle in the cold, or being tempted to buy stuff in the convenience store etc. In comparison, I go home and plug in to charge my car, exactly the same way that I charge my phone, so it’s ready for the next day. It’s not difficult at all. It might take 30 secons and more often than than fueling but it’s still much faster than stopping on the road, gas or not.
Only actual real downside for me is that I’m also a cheapskate. I prefer to time my charging to the variable electricity prices, but not everyone has that option and it’s completely voluntary… I’m not sure if it’s worth it. Sure, i save a few bucks, but the hassle of it is real. I am considering changing to a subscription model instead, just to avoid worrying about it.
The best advice that I got before buying was: “Just drive it”.
Don’t think about it: It’s a tool, use it. In a lot of ways an EV is much better suited for that, because you only need to worry about it being ready to use. You probably never thought of that for your ICE car, because you’d do refueling and other fluids on the road. If you fuel at home, you’ll also have to refill your sprinklers and remember to wash it every now and then… Maintenance is home based, not on a station.
There’s a whole lot of benefits to it as well, but you didn’t ask for those, and I think you should just go test drive one to see for yourself.
Tesla require a better grounding than the building code in most countries
Is this a European thing too? I’ve never heard of this limitation in the US, and I certainly didn’t have to get anything changed. I’m curious about the details
Yes it’s country specific, but more about old houses.
In my case the building code says the ground should have an impedance of maximum 1666 ohm. My installation was already grounded and had about 400 ohm.
The charger guidelines says 200 ohm, however the car refuses to charge on anything over 100 ohm. I had an electrician add a new ground spear, bringing the impedance down below 1 ohm.
The building code in USA already recommends 25 ohm, so it shouldn’t be an issue if the installation is up to date.
TIL … thanks
Not yet, but are there any electric cars that aren’t spyware with touchscreens on wheels?
I would argue all connected cars have become that. If you’re buying anything newer than 2015, in all likelihood it’s a spyware filled go-kart.
lol. As opposed to the 6 inch rectangle in your pocket
If you have a place to charge it and potentially another car to swap/borrow for road trips it is pretty much the best vehicle for city driving/daily commute.
- Charging at home is much cheaper and healthier for the battery. If you can’t charge at home I wouldn’t get an EV.
- Ask yourself how often you do road trips. Depending on where you live a 6-7 hour drive can easily turn into 12+ hours because of waiting around for charging if the chargers are not close enough to each other to utilise charging at the lowest battery % possible. Even the tesla supercharger network can be quite sparce outside of urban/wealthy areas.
- Price - EVs are still quite expensive compared to ice in general, and depreciation can be killer. A used tesla model 3 is basically half the price now compared to what it was a few years ago when new. Check what kind of tax breaks or other benefits you can get in your region or consider buying used.
My EV has been from Minneapolis to Key West, Seattle, Toronto and plenty of shorter road trips. I don’t stray far off the beaten path but I haven’t had issues charging.
Model 3 owner (before the crazy) and I love it still. auto pilot is amazing, I hate elon but honestly the super chargers are so much better than the other plug. I may consider something besides a tesla if they get an auto pilot thing and adopt the plug, but unfortunately for the time being i’m stuck giving money to the jumping dip$h1t.
We bought a used one and just use a little Android Auto server we built for online services. It’s a little extra work but works great, giving me more control and options. No money to Musk that way. He does get our driving data, but we can pull the SIM card out of the car if we want to stop that.
Nice project, thanks for the pointer
It all depends on your use case. For me with a 20 mile round trip daily commute and a 200 mile drive every other week where the car is then parked for 36-48 hours at a hotel with a level 2 charger before returning home an ev is great. If you can charge at home I think it’s a no brainer if you’re looking to buy new or slightly used. If you’re constantly driving hundreds of miles in a day then no probably not. Downside are longer road trips, as some other people said in places where charging is sparce you’re looking at 50-100% more time for distance traveled. But if you don’t mind being more leisurely and chilling out at a restaurant or what have you then it’s not a big deal. And initial price. They are still expensive.
