Not to be “that guy” but lemmygrad is not about national socialism. They are but jobs that will do Olympic level mental gymnastics routines to defend anything and everything Russia or China does, but that doesn’t make then Nazis, “just” on the same moral level as Nazis.
They’re tankies. Pure and simple. Sick of people calling them socialists, they aren’t even communists. They’re delusional anti-western China/Russia good, tankies.
deleted by creator
Exactly. It’s almost like there’s nuance and gray area. Siding entirely with one country over another in anything is almost always a bad idea. Everything? Completely illogical.
You’re right they aren’t Nazis. But they do want a warped form of national socialism. One that honestly goes against the basic intent of socialism as originally envisioned. Like the other national socialists.
Leninists, Soviet Russia, North Korea, China all qualify as socialism and communism only by the flimsiest most dishonest pretenses. They are more than an anything authoritarian. Anything else is just coincidental.
Amazing that your comment shows +15 and -0 votes at the moment. A month ago or thereabouts I made similar comments comparing Communists to Nazis in regard to how authoritarianism is bad and people hated that shit.
EDIT: haha there’s my downvotes, bring it on you commie dipshits. Fuck communism, fuck the CCP, fuck Russia and all the rest.
Communists are barely better than Nazis.
Communists are great. Authoritarians are the problem. Much like how Nazis called themselves socialists, plenty of other awful people like to adopt our words and twist them to manipulate.
I don’t think you know what communism is and how Russia /China/etc. fail at it. Speaking as a non-communist, I I think you should seek to deepen your understanding before engaging with the topic further.
There exist anti-authoritarian communists. (They’re called “anarchists”. Pro-capitalists have in relatively recent times appropriated the term, so don’t let them confuse you.) You’re getting downvotes because you’re conflating communism with authoritarianism just because you’ve personally never had experience with anarchists.
My instance doesn’t have downvotes and this feels very reddity to me
Yeah… That’s because lemmy.ml IS lemmygrad.ml. There’s a heavy theory that they slid in and took over the domain.
I posted a meme making fun of Disney having multiple “First” gay characters. The title made a joke about how it’s the first character in China everytime as the character is deleted.
Banned for two weeks.
I posted a meme about how modern US cars/trucks are too big and send all your data to China.
Banned for a week, citing rule 1 - No bigotryYea, I was banned for rule 2 for saying hexbear and lemmygrad ban you for disagreeing in reply to someone saying lemmy.world wants an ecochamber.
Also a comment got removed where I said that both hamas and Israel are bad for killing civilians. Apparently that violated rule 1 of no bigotry.
Some sussy stuff is going on in their mod team for sure.
They have a exceptionally weak worldview and can’t handle open discussions, this isn’t a surprise considering their entire instance is banned in China. They’re emulating their favorite shithole.
That shit is what kills me. They dogpile on and repeat the same bullshit arguments when they venture outside. Quickly ban any level of discourse or debate about their ideas. Then call everyone else and eco chamber because they don’t like it when your don’t agree with them.
I just got a ban as well, they didn’t like me saying I assume anyone bleating about communism online hasn’t been through puberty yet.
Lemmy.ml deleted my comments that were correcting disinformation but left the intentional lie. No explanation or notice given. Happy to explain more if anyone is actually interested.
When I called them out the called me racist for saying “CCP” and deleted my comments. They also deleted other people’s comments in the thread.
Lemmy.ml is hot fucking garbage.
Yep. Even if I wasn’t banned I would have stopped posting. I unsubscribed and deleted all previous posts I had made to anything on lemmy.ml and shifted over to a couple other instances. I’ve been talking with another guy who also posts a bunch and he said he did the same thing and pulled back from lemmy.ml due to bad experiences, outright stopped posting after I told him I got banned (I appreciate you dude <3).
The more obvious their behavior becomes the more people are gonna pull back from the instance. I left simply because it’s the same overmoderation I came to expect from reddit. I am not about that life and do not want to engage with it. I totally understand moderation and if I get stuff removed I get it. However I also expect something like a warning before you get banned or at least a notice that your post was deleted. I was having stuff taken down I didn’t even know about, stuff I didn’t even know was a problem. All using vague rules with no justification. Nah. I will take an enormous pass on that one, thanks.
Hilariously I noticed after I got banned that a week prior I had been messaged by an admin. He had said that one of my posts was a problem and “if I couldn’t see why then he could take the time to explain to me”. I either didn’t see it when he sent it to me or I felt that it was such a petty response that I marked it read to respond when I was in a better mood and then just forgot about it. Not sure. Either way the fact that it was an admin really sold to me that there’s little point in posting to the server. Also makes me really uncomfortable to think about the message system considering it’s unsecure and could be accessed by the admins. Just a thought.
So you made the same joke they make about libertarians and got banned? That’s kind of amusing.
They’re a bit sensitive.
You’re wrong. But we definitely agreed about the childishness of “leninists”. They’re no ones ally. Actual communists are actually pretty agreeable/chill most of the time.
I wonder… Maybe it’s just the mods. I had no idea what a tankie was, and the definition I was getting was ridiculous - so I went over to lemmygrad
They didn’t defend Mao or China (which is by any definition, capitalist). They just attacked America, which is whataboutism, but not the same as defending authoritarian countries… They did make a lot of nonsensical posts about dielectric dichotomies, but again, that’s an ideology without a firm core, very different from supporting genocidal regimes like Russia or China (which are again, forms of tightly controlled capitalism -ussr included)
Although I was attacked for my spelling and criticized for using the term tankie, no one actually said anything supporting authoritarian regimes. Every snipe I made at China or Russia got zero reaction
But I didn’t get any attention from the mods, maybe there’s another story there
The problem with the definition isnt that its inaccurate per se irs more so that tankies have kinda realized on some level that they get derided for it so they cover it in like 5 layers of obfuscation. Combine that with folks doing it ironically and ya get a 4chan situation where ya cant tell whos serious and whos not.
Also doesnt help that some of them are legit just anti-american and just dont think about anything outside of North America. Theyre a diverse group and the term Tankie was xreated long enough ago that its sorta becomes inaccurate with the edge cases.
Nah, I spent some time over there getting to the root of what they believe. There’s multiple shades of what they do believe, none of them were the unironic “Stalin did nothing wrong” types.
Let me tell you what clued me into the fact there was something fishy - the devs of Lemmy, the decentralized, impossible to control or monetize social network software, support highly centralized, authoritarian regimes that were always run through a form of state owned capitalism? That’s a pretty big ideological mismatch.
The term is being used as an umbrella to dismiss all communists. Over at lemmygrad, the majority is primarily Marxist-Leninist… But it’s even more fair to say they’re just anti capitalism and have been sold on the idea that that’s the only other option on the table
The problem is by labeling someone a tankie, you prevent them from engaging in the conversation they sorely need to develop a better understanding of political and economic systems. And they do need it… Their ideology ends at “the workers unite and take back control”, and movements that end up in control with no game plan are how you end up with terrible ideas, like the Soviet model
IMO, there’s a big gap between Marxist-Leninist and being a shill for authoritarian regimes… You say they’re hiding their denial of genocide because they’ve smartened up. I say who cares what’s in their hearts, if they’re not denying genocides then don’t give them the same label as those who are
They’re don’t believe in socialism, they believe in authoritarianism. Therefore, they will defend any ancillary ethos.
I’m so glad this instance understands the difference and has good takes on Palestine and Israel. Reddit is chockful of… shit when i decided to browse it earlier.
Nazis: Socialism for me but not for ye.
There was absolutely no socialism for anyone in the Nazi regime.
But it’s in the name!
Do you also think that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea or the Democratic Republic of the Congo isn’t very democratic?
God forbid they believe the USSR ever did anything that could be deemed as antithetical to socialism… hmmm…
Here we go again!
Thank you for your service.
national socialismauthoritarian communismFIFY
For sure, i live in canada, which has socilistic institutions (national healthcare, social security, ect)
I’m a huge fan of some socialism, but do NOT want to see full communism.
These are not socialist institutions, they’re capitalist institutions. You pay for their services and you get the services you were promised.
Sorry, can you please explain to all us non Americans how nationalized healthcare is not a socialist institution?
As a non American person living in Britain, I pay insurance called National Insurance and then get medicine when needed. And if I don’t pay, I don’t get shit. How’s that socialist?
That is a text book example of a socialist institution. The clue might be in the name.
I think the issue is somehow socialist institutions have gotten a bad name/are thought to be unnatural.
Then nothing is socialized. My tax monies go to roads, in a single payer tax based collective system. Same with military, fire, ect.
“Socialized medicine is, by definition, a healthcare system in which the government owns and operates healthcare facilities and employs the healthcare professionals, thus also paying for all healthcare services”
That’s it, and both UK and Canadian healthcare is socialized. You can argue that cows are 6" red spheres until you are blue in the face, but the rest of us will just regard you as… Special.
But the British government doesn’t employ doctors and doesn’t own the facilities. It is not socialised.
Can you do me the basic decency of reading my first message, way back two months ago, which you responded to?
I know reading is really hard, and two months ago is forever ago, but if you try really hard, I’m sure you can do it.
Two months ago I said something like “in Canada…” To which you responded “that’s not socialized healthcare”…
Now, does “Canada” sound like “the United Kingdom”?
Wow, isn’t that something!
Now that we’ve established I EXPLICITLY WAS TALKING ABOUT CANADA!!!, with regard to the UK…
"All English residents are automatically entitled to free public health care through the National Health Service, including hospital, physician, and mental health care. The National Health Service budget is funded primarily through general taxation. Which is a single payer healthcare system based on tax, instead of a capital driven multi-payer system, which is exactly what socialized medicine is.
They don’t need to be owned or employed by the government for it to be socialized. You’re confusing communism with socialism.
In real world terms, sure, but this was definitely a reference to what the Nazis called themselves.
I filter that whole server. It’s a ridiculous amount of propaganda.
Users need the power to block servers.
It’s an upcoming general feature, but in the meantime several of the third party apps let you block by instance. I use Connect, and I’ve heard Boost does too.
I blocked hexbear, because they tend to start fights everywhere, and the NSFW instances so I can use my phone around my kids.
I can still see the ml one but if it’s here…
I don’t understand, is this supposed to say that grad is nazis? They’re very explicit about not allowing nazis and adjacent stuff.
Sure they disallow nazis, but they do exactly what nazis tend to do; alienate, dehumanize and propagandize.
there is not a big enough 🤔 emoji to reply to this post.
You can take your emoji and go read their comments calling for race-based nuclear holocaust or keep up your charade that these claims are questionable. Personally idc what you choose to do 🫡
I’m searching grad posts and comments locally for the word “nuke” and “nuclear” using new sort and there’s a whole lot of worry about states using them, some people saying more nuclear armed states would make everyone more careful and less violent but no calls for nuclear genocide.
Before I say this I wanna be as clear as possible: claiming that a whole group of people are Nazis that wanna commit nuclear genocide is serious. I’m not asking for evidence to waste your time, or to avoid doing my own searches. I have looked for myself and come up empty handed. The claims I’m seeing fly in the face of what grad says their standard is, what their modlog bear their standard out to be and my own limited experience with grad users.
I am posting here not to start a fight or waste peoples time, but because I’m open to being wrong and want to find out more.
Can you show me the comments calling for race based nuclear holocaust? If you can’t, can you point me to the instance I should search on or whose modlog I should look on to find them?
Really!? 17 hours of looking and you still haven’t found the reason they were defederated!? Remind me not to hire you as a research assistant. That sort of willful belligerence isn’t very useful. I should start calling you Clayton Bigsby.
It’s starting to look like there isn’t any…
I’ve really tried to be kind and courteous to people when asking about this stuff but the level of pushback and runaround just in response to my comments in this thread are absurd.
When someone doesn’t see the thing you say is happening, what’s the big deal with showing them?
I’m not trying to win an argument or waste anyone’s time (a person could argue I’m wasting my own).
If there are posts espousing the tenets of national socialism, hating the working class or calling for nuclear genocide why not just link them?
I’m trying in what little free time I have to find evidence but it’s not forthcoming! I have to cast a wide net and that makes the search slow. If you know what to look for or where to look, tell me!
Unless of course it’s all made up…
Well then you better take your conspiracy to the lemmy.world admins fast! They need to know they were wrong. Better hurry! Don’t want innocent little goosesteppers unable to post here!
I’m sorry we separated you from your fascist fuck buddies.
There’s a huge astroturfing campaign going on in Lemmy.World. Just kick these rightwingers’ teeth in.
To be honest we don’t have a real name for them. They say they support the tenets of national socialism, deride capitalism, engage in liberalism, and hate the working class.
Call them what you will. Nazi, neo-nazi, neo-neo-nazi, neo-bolshevik, I don’t know. In any case it’s all different flavours of fascism.
I’ve never seen a grad say they support the tenets of national socialism or that they hate the working class. Can you show me?
No, they’ve been defederated.
yall must have strong defederation if you can’t even go to the grad website and see their posts.
average .ml behavior lol
Response from Lemmy.world “Do you have a second to remove my boot from your ass?"
I have the time. I mean, it’s gotta be a pretty short conversation because there are no benefits.
I mean, there are if you’re „arian“, not disabled or otherwise made a target and don’t get snitched on by your neighbors.
In that case you can live like a „free“ person while people around you „disappear“ which would not freak you out at all. (/s)
You are not actually free though because if you openly criticize anything, you disappear as well.
I suppose the common theme is „murderous authoritarianism“.
There’s another name for rightwingers: regressivist idiots.
Good post
Appreciated.
Can someone tell me what specifically got Lemmygrad.ml defederated? Was there a particular post or community or a pattern of behavior?
I believe there was a server, “Meanwhile on grad” watching their clearly hysterical behaviour. It was very much like subreddits watching TheDonald, the mods are idiots, too. I’m sure that “Meanwhile on grad” server still exists, but I got subscriptions and stopped looking at other servers.
You know it baffles in my mind that pleated pants ever existed.
The mods on lemmy.ml are a bunch of sensitive bitches. I once made a meme criticizing the lack of concrete rules… It got deleted
![Bye Felicia [Crosspost]](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/56140da0-2b80-4a33-990a-62d65cd9b393.jpeg){kind=link}