So there’s a ton of countries that I’ve heard have had truly unaffordable housing for decades, like:

  • The UK
  • Ireland
  • The Netherlands

And I’ve heard of a ton of countries where the cost of houses was until recently quite affordable where it’s also started getting worse:

  • Germany
  • Poland
  • Czechia
  • Hungary
  • The US
  • Australia
  • Canada
  • And I’m sure plenty others
  1. It seems to be a pan-Western bloc thing. Is the cause in all these countries the same?
  2. We’ve heard of success stories in cities like Vienna where much of the housing stock is municipally owned – but those cities have had it that way for decades. Would their system alleviate the current crisis if established in the aforementioned countries?
  3. What specific policies should I be demanding of our politicians to make housing affordable again? Is there any silver bullet? Has any country demonstrably managed to reverse this crisis yet?
  • xapr [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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    13 days ago

    What specific policies should I be demanding of our politicians to make housing affordable again?

    1. Ban corporate ownership and excessive individual ownership (ex: > 10) of homes.
    2. Remove most barriers to building lots of new and higher density housing (ex: four-story multi-unit buildings) except legitimate safety and ecological concerns.
    • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      13 days ago

      In my own Portugal, which is a very turistic country and also towards the bottom of the GDP-per-capita scale in the EU, things that would likely work very well would also be:

      • Crack down on AirBnB
      • Forbid ownership for non-residents.

      Portugal currently has a massive house inflation problem (extra massive, because of how low average incomes are here) and a lot of it has to do with residential housing being removed from the housing market and turned into short term turist lets (for example, over 10% of housing in Lisbon has been turned into AirBnB lets) and foreign investors (not just big companies but also individuals, such as well off pensioneers from places like France) pulling prices up by being far less price sensitive than the locals as they’re buying residential housing as investments having far more money available than the average Portuguese.

      Having lived in both Britain and Portugal during housing bubbles, what I’ve observed was that the politicians themselves purposefully inflate those bubbles, partly because they themselves are part of the upper middle class or even above (especially in the UK) who can afford to and have Realestate “investments” and hence stand to gain personally (as do their mates) from Realestate prices going up and partly because the way Official GDP (which is supposedly the Real GDP, which has Inflation effects removed) is calculated nowadays means that house price inflation appears as GDP “growth” since the effects of house price increases come in via the “inputted rent” mechanism but the Inflation Indexes used to create that GDP do not include house price inflation, so by sacrificing the lives of many if not most people in the country (especially the young, for example the average age for them to leave their parent’s home in Portugal is now above 34 years old and at this point half of all University graduates leave the country as soon as they graduate) they both enrich themselves and can harp in the news all about how they made the GDP go up.

      All this has knock on effects on the rest of the Economy, from the braindrain as highly educated young adults leave and the even faster population aging as people can’t afford to have kids, to shops closing because most people have less money left over after paying rent or mortgage so spend less, plus the commercial realestate market is also in a bubble so shops too suffer from higher rents. However all this is slow to fully manifest itself plus those who bought their houses before when they were cheaper don’t feel directly like the rest, and they generally don’t really mentally link the more visible effects (such as more and more empty storefronts) to realestate inflation, much less do more complex analysis of predictable effects, such as how the braindrain and fall in birthrates will impact their pensions in a decade or two.

      • xapr [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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        13 days ago

        Crack down on AirBnB Forbid ownership for non-residents.

        Ah, yes, I forgot to mention AirBnB! Those are both good calls.

        The AirBnb issue is a little complicated because I’ve seen some good arguments that it can help people afford to keep their homes. But I think that could easily be addressed by a single, simple rule: you are only allowed to rent your primary residence as determined by tax records.

        • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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          13 days ago

          that it can help people afford to keep their homes

          This is actually a good argument but I believe it’s only valid when people sub-let empty rooms, and don’t buy whole new houses to rent out as is now more commonly the case.

          • xapr [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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            13 days ago

            In addition to only renting out single rooms, I also thought of the scenario where someone goes to visit a relative and rents their whole apartment while they’re away, perhaps when there is some major event in their town that causes all hotels to be sold out. Both of those scenarios would be addressed by the rule I proposed to only allow renting out the primary residence on AirBnB.

            • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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              13 days ago

              Agreed

              only allow renting out the primary residence on AirBnB.

              Yes this sounds like a good (and importantly very simple) rule

                • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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                  13 days ago

                  Primary Residence: Hosts can only list their primary residence—the home where they live for at least six months of the year—as a short-term rental. Registration: A mandatory registration process with the city includes obtaining a Home-sharing permit and paying an annual $89 fee. Hosts must renew this permit and provide evidence of continuous compliance. Annual Cap: Short-term rentals are subject to a 120-day annual cap.

                  Actually, this is impressive. LA seems to have it’s shit together on this issue. Do you know if house prices are still a problem there?

      • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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        13 days ago

        I see, yes I definitely agree that AirBnB is part of the problem (it’s happening too here in Prague), although I think it can’t be the main cause because the price rise is also being felt in other parts of the country where there are practically no tourists…

        • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          13 days ago

          Whilst I would be wary of saying AirBnB is the main cause (more likely it’s a big one but not the only one), keep in mind that when realestate prices go up in major cities, that pushes out people who go to cheaper places, pushing prices up in those places which in turn might push some out from those places and into even cheaper places.

          So housing bubbles centered in main cities do naturally spread out from there to places were the original causes of the bubble are not present.

      • xapr [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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        12 days ago

        Oh, I agree if you’re talking about addressing homelessness. That makes sense. If you’re advocating free social housing for every single person in the country, I’m not sure how that could be done or if it’s ever been done anywhere ever? I would be curious to hear about possible solutions though.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      Massachusetts has a regional transit system, and just used that to mandate transit oriented development for all towns and cities served. It requires they zone higher density housing “as of right” within half a mile of transit. I have high hopes for that, but it will take decades and we’re starting at such a high cost of living.

      However we also have the problem of a stagnant population and very little room for new development. It’s infill and replacement housing so will be even slower

      • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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        12 days ago

        I think money should be invested into investigating ways to retrofit the current urban sprawl neigborhoods to make them higher density.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          The problem is everything with buildings is slow. Who can afford to replace functional buildings, and buildings remain useful for decades or more? There’s only so much you can do with infill. The only other option I can think of is to change zoning radically enough that it becomes profitable to bulldoze functional buildings. Of course that has additional environmental costs but over time should be fine

          I’m personally not a fan of higher density buildings by themselves. That’s just a recipe for annoying people enough that you hope they demand better before they give up and move away. Higher density buildings needs to have some thought put into walkability, personal mobility, and transit

    • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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      13 days ago

      Ban corporate ownership and excessive individual ownership (ex: > 10) of homes.

      This is also what my knee jerk reaction would be. Do you know if it’s actually been done in any country, and whether it worked?

    • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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      13 days ago

      the increased housing supply has kept private rents very affordable too.

      This is very good.

      Do you know if Austria had an Ireland-style house price problem before they did this (ie. would it halt the crisis in Ireland now), or is it more that it just prevented the crisis we see in surrounding countries from happening in Austria in the first place?

      • ECB@feddit.org
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        12 days ago

        They’ve been building big public housing since the 1920s. I live next to a lot of it and it’s quite high quality and really pleasant.

        Lots of cities/countries has massive public housing (the UK being a great example post WW2) but Vienna is more of an exception in that they didn’t follow the trend in the 70s-90s of privatization and stopping investment (although it did slow down at one point).

        They were the same way about their tram system, where they kept it rather than ripping it out like most places. Now everyone else wishes they so had a tram network or is trying to rebuild one.

        That being said, rents are rising here too, but they are much more reasonable to begin with. I was living in London previously, and now we spend about 30-40% less for a place over twice the size and in a nicer location. Plus finding a place was muuuuuch easier, since it’s noticeably less competitive.

      • schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
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        12 days ago

        “before they did this” for Vienna is around WW1, which was a very different time :/

        I am not very familiar with housing crises in other countries. I have lived in Vienna my whole life and now live in an apartment I own. This was possible to afford for me (a single man then in his mid-20s working as a software engineer) with a bank loan and some financial support from my family; I am not sure if it would still be possible nowadays.

        • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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          12 days ago

          I see. Yeah, I live across the border in Czechia and the way you did it used to be standard too until 5-10 years ago. Then the prices started rising (especially here in Prague) and it started to be a problem. It used to all be state owned obvs (not sure about einfamillienhauses though) but it was sold to the residents after 1990, and our levels of municipal housing haven’t risen much since then either. I don’t think we had the housing cooperative movement that you guys had in the interwar period.

    • BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca
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      13 days ago

      This is both false and true. Japan has a few things happening that are keeping rates lower, but the primary thing keeping costs low in Japan is the fact that the units are tiny. I’m not talking a little on the small side, I’m talking 200 square feet or less per person in a family home. No yards either.

      If you compare Japan to the dwelling sizes of other nations, it’s just as bad or worse per square foot.

      The end goal for solving housing should not be to make the rooms as small as possible. Especially in countries where land space isn’t the limiting factor.

      • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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        13 days ago

        By making the rooms smaller you’re just kicking the can down the road. Eventually the price inflation will catch up and even those shoeboxes will cost a fortune.

      • FindME@lemmy.myserv.one
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        13 days ago

        The housing I remember in Japan was the coffin box. A little space long enough for you to lie down in, with a small cubby for items. I think it was about 30 sq. ft. and maybe 90 cu. ft.

  • rthomas6@lemmy.ml
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    12 days ago

    What specific policies should I be demanding of our politicians to make housing affordable again?

    The answer is Georgism combined with no zoning, but people aren’t ready to hear about that yet.

    By Georgism I mean a very high tax (80+%) on the unimproved value of land. It prevents land speculation and returns the value of the land to the public. Houses would be incredibly cheap, because you couldn’t make money by merely owning land. The only reason to own a house would be to live in it, or to provide a true service for people who would actually prefer to rent.

  • Flax@feddit.uk
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    13 days ago

    I think China is doing something funky, but it’s hard to get reliable information about that country

    • SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip
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      12 days ago

      Take what I say with a big grain of salt because I’m just an onlooker, but from what I’ve heard housing is incredibly unaffordable in the desireable cities like Beijing and Shanghai, like $600000 for a 2bdrm when the median salary is $20000. It’s a speculative investment whose bubble has burst but prices are still super inflated.

  • BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca
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    13 days ago

    Vienna is not as good a situation as it may look. Their public housing stock is only great if you can’t get into it. There are waitlists years long, and you have to live in the city already to be eligible to get on the waitlist. Private housing is still expensive.

    • Montagge@lemmy.zip
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      13 days ago

      That depends on if you consider the migrant workers living in encampments as homeless or not

    • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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      13 days ago

      So do most people here in Czechia. We have had capitalism for 35 years and for the first 30 house prices were stable and affordable (with no large municipal sector). Something has happened within the last 5 years and I’d like to know if it’s the same cause as in the other countries and how it can be reversed.

      • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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        13 days ago

        Such is the path of decommunization. Most post-soviet countries have or will experience something similar as capitalists take the housing for profit.

        • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlOP
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          13 days ago

          I definitely do fear something like that happening. Still, how would you explain the 30 years under capitalism when it was working fine? Why didn’t the capitalists swoop in in year 1 (or 15)?

          • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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            12 days ago

            Capitalism hadn’t advanced towards late stage yet.

            Your ideal time was always a transitory period. This end result is inevitable.

            Even if you pass reforms now… that is only kicking the can into your children’s or grandchildren faces.

  • mke_geek@lemm.ee
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    13 days ago

    Look at places in the U.S. who have built a lot more housing – rents and housing prices have gone down.

    1. Relax/change zoning requirements
    2. Give subsidies to developers for affordable housing
  • anar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    11 days ago

    People are not ready to hear this, but the problem is that “Housing” is being treated as a market, not a basic human right. As long as governments are full of homeowners who will lose a lot of money should the house prices go down as a result of abundance, the problem will keep getting worse.

    In most countries, the middle class is seduced into thinking of buying a house as an “investment”.

      • luckystarr@feddit.org
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        13 days ago

        In good locations: Houses depreciate in value over time because they are less safe in the event of an earthquake than newer houses.

        In bad locations: just take the house, everybody else left this town anyways.