Cultural appropriation is when you take something sacred or special and don’t treat it with respect. Sombreros and parkas are just clothes.
Thanks for explaining. I never understood the American outrage about cultural appropriation but it’s just about respecting sacred symbols from other cultures? Sounds about right, please feel free to dress as a Frenchman with beret and baguette as long as you respect our no-tipping policy.
Next item to discover on my list: why are Americans so upset about “black face”. And that’s what I witnessed in Sevilla (Spain) recently which did not seem racist to me at all: https://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2023/01/05/polemica-espana-blackface-reyes-magos-trax/
Next item to discover on my list: why are Americans so upset about “black face”.
That’s because of minstrel shows. They were American comedy acts where actors would paint their faces black and act out racist stereotypes. The premise was “look at me! I’m a black person!” and then they’d do something stupid and everyone would laugh. Note that black people were slaves at the time. When slavery was (mostly) abolished after the civil war, the shows and makeup became symbols of racism.
It’s kind of like how a swastika in a Buddhist temple is fine but a swastika tattoo on a white American isn’t. The swastika doesn’t have to be racist symbol, but there are few places you could display one without it being interpreted as a racist symbol.
Great explanation, thank you very much!
The other comment explains most of it, but when it comes to acting specifically there’s also some level of “why didn’t you just get an actual black person”
Fair enough!
I’m a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude!
I think the more important factor is taking ownership over something that originated elsewhere.
Even though it isn’t sacred, I would argue that the association between Great Britain and tea comes from appropriation. It wasn’t necessarily appropriation for the Portuguese to bring tea back to Europe, but it certainly was when the British used Chinese seeds and cultivation techniques in India to push China out of the trade.
I think the more important factor is taking ownership over something that originated elsewhere.
This describes virtually every tool, food, piece of clothing, etc you have ever used that was invented before the 20th century. Most of them originating somewhere else and being copied, rebranded, and modified over and over for decades or centuries until they reached their current forms. The only real difference is how recently it happened and if you can wedge it into a power hierarchy in such a way as to be able to blame someone who’s an acceptable target for that blame.
According to you.
Snowflakes: “It is offensive for a westerner to wear a Japanese kimono. You are not Japanese!”
Native Japanese: “We insist you wear this kimono so you feel like part of the group.”
Based on a true story.
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Cultural appropriation is a broad enough term to functionally be meaningless, but I’ve found it helpful to think through 4 distinct interests at play, that I think are legitimate:
Proper attribution/credit. We don’t like plagiarism or unattributed copying in most art. Remixes, homages, reinterpretations, and even satire/parody are acceptable but we expect proper treatment of the original author and the original work. Some accusations of cultural appropriation take on this flavor, where there’s a perceived unfairness in how the originator of an idea is ignored and some copier is given credit. For a real world example of this, think of the times the fans of a particular musical artist get annoyed when a cover of one of that artist’s song becomes bigger than the original.
Proper labeling/consumer disclosure/trademark. Some people don’t like taking an established name and applying it outside of that original context. European nations can be pretty aggressive at preserving the names of certain wines (champagne versus sparkling wine) or cheeses (parmigiano reggiano versus parmesan) or other products. American producers are less aggressive about those types of geographic protected labels but have a much more aggressive system of trademarks generally: Coca Cola, Nike, Starbucks. In a sense, there’s literal ownership of a name and the owner should be entitled to decide what does or doesn’t get the label.
Cheapening of something special or disrespect for something sacred. For certain types of ceremonial clothing, wearing that clothing outside of the context of that ceremony seems disrespectful. Military types sometimes get offended by stolen valor when people wear ranks/ribbons/uniforms they haven’t personally earned, and want to gatekeep who gets to wear those things. In Wedding Crashers there’s a scene where Will Ferrell puts on a fake purple heart to try to get laid, and it’s widely understood by the audience to be a scummy move. Or, one could imagine the backlash if someone were to host some kind of drinking contest styled after some Christian communion rituals, complete with a host wearing stuff that looks like clergy attire.
Mockery of a group. Blackface, fake accents, and things of that nature are often in bad taste when used to mock people. It’s hard to pull this off without a lot of people catching strays, so it’s best to just avoid these practices. With costumes in general, there are things to look out for, especially if you’re going out and getting smashed.
This is probably the best most level-headed and respectful take I’ve seen regarding cultural appropriation. Thank you!
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LandedGentry
As, you must have been a mod from that “shit hole site”, I heard they were landed gentry!
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The chapters and labeling makes me think of AI. It always does that in replies
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I just said that the formatting reminded me of AI. I didn’t talk about the content
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Not my intention
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Using “cultural appropriation” to drag down regular people is kind of pointless, like freaking out at someone for putting the wrong recyclable type of plastic trash in the garbage.
Cultural appropriation matters at the corporate level, where media shapes what regular people do. Do you want to talk about cultural appropriation? Talk about Disney, talk about Hollywood, talk about Jeep Cherokee, and Decathlon Quechua. To keep with the recycling analogy: your problem shouldn’t be ordinary people messing up their trash sorting, it should be vendors mass producing plastic trash for everything.
nah, it just depends on what you’re appropriating from what culture… doing the stereotypical mexican garb is ok with mexico… so that’s cool, dressing in some religious outfit is incredibly offensive… like a native american headdress with a bunch of feathers… it’s also especially offensive in america because of the native american genocide americans great great grandparents probably participated in….
it’s all context… also in how you wear it… (are you making fun of mexicans or having fun with mexicans?) but mexicans are generally cool with americans wearing sombreros… and have a long tradition of american tourists doing so…. plus a sobrero and a mexican blanket is functional gear, not some sacred thing.
cowboys and their whole style is also entirely mexican originally, our cultures are quite intertwined.
that doesn’t change anything else and it’s just cherry picking examples.Bingo, Im white and Mexican born. I can dress up in traditional Mexican stuff and no one gives a crap. If I tried to be a rastafarian, whose faith is focused on the return of African descended people back to Africa, itvwould be wrong.
Thankfully we have religious freedom so it doesn’t matter if doing something offends another person’s religion
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it still matters
Culture is meant to be shared, as long as you’re respectful and you’re not caricaturing or mocking the culture you’re trying to portray, most people from said culture would be flattered.
Mocking cultures is fine. Mocking anything is fine.
Obviously, but the intent is important.
And also the representation of that culture. An ignorant attempt at mocking a culture can be offensive even if the intent is purely comic or positive.
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It doesn’tIt does
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Lol, you got me there.
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I’m not, I even edited the prior comment I made.
At my wedding reception, my wife’s cousins plopped a giant black and gold sombrero on my head to welcome me to the family. I’m expected to bring said sombrero to family get togethers and smash beers con mi familia
I see muchos Modelos in your future!
Are you sure it was black and gold and not white and blue?
Case in point: Mexicans loved Speedy Gonzalez.
Probably because he always outwits his opponents and always wins. He’s not any more crazy than the other Looney Tunes, he’s as smart as Bugs, and unlike Bugs, he’s never cruel and remains firmly heroic.
That’s the crux. He’s a Mexican stereotype, but at the time, it was rare to have a good guy who looked like that.
The way I tend to feel about this is that it’s a jerk move if you’re mocking some other group, or reasonably could be seen as mocking them, or try to claim that you/your group invented the thing you’re using, but otherwise, borrowing stuff people like from other cultures is just one of the ways cultures evolve.
I can see some people objecting on the grounds that imitating something distinctive makes that thing less unique to the original group, or that an imitation by outsiders won’t include some aspect important to the original and then that people that see the imitation won’t get that aspect.
I can certainly understand why those feelings could lead to frustration, but applied strictly, the idea that certain things belong exclusively to the cultures that invented them both requires forcing people into precise boxes as to which culture they belong to, and sort of resembles a type of socially enforced intellectual property, which, being against IP as a concept, is something I feel like I’d be hypocritical agreeing with.
Well said.
The only reason im replying is
being against IP as a concept
Has me hella curious. Can you elaborate? Is it the capitalist aspect of patents/trademarks and licensing or something else? I believe that people who invent a concept/character/world should have ownership to develop it into what their grander vision may be before someone else can come and write the story/use of their tool. Id love to hear your side of this though because I don’t know anyone thats ever told me their against IP as a concept
It’s mainly just that, since information can be copied without removing access to the original from the current possessor of that information, I don’t see a good justification to restrict use of it. If you steal something, the original owner loses while you benefit. Since the unexpected loss is probably felt worse, this is a net negative and therefore a bad thing. But, if you copy information (which IP by nature is), you can give it to an arbitrarily large number of people without even taking it from the original, enough benefit to in my opinion outweigh the frustration that loss of control causes. Capitalism adds another element given it also ties monopoly over a given bit of information to artist compensation, but even without capitalism, I don’t think information should be seen as property
I don’t think it’s offensive, but if you’re wearing that just to make a point then maybe you’re just looking to offend people. This is less directed to the comic and more directed to the YouTube clips I have seen of similar scenario.
I’d imagine most would wear those clothes because fun
There’s a Prager U video about this.
It’s ok to do offensive things if you can find a representative to validate your behavior
I don’t think just wearing the clothes is offensive thing to begin with
Wearing specific cloths in an attempt to offend people is offensive. Not hard to understand.
People don’t just wear sombreros and fucking native headdresses. And if they were just wearing them they probably wouldn’t be bugging random ethnic people about wearing “their” cloths.
You know what you are doing and it’s not clever, cute or funny.
Yet again the right makes up an issue for idiots to be mad about and then “fixes” the issue by being edgy instead of paying attention to real problems in the real world.
Wearing specific cloths in an attempt to offend people is offensive. Not hard to understand.
Right but I did say just wearing them alone isn’t offensive.
People don’t just wear sombreros and fucking native headdresses.
Uhh, what. Some just like different clothes…
And if they were just wearing them they probably wouldn’t be bugging random ethnic people about wearing “their” cloths.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. Is this the sort of reasoning that since someone got upset about it the person wearing the clothes must have done something else to upset the other person? There was the kid wearing a kimono thing posted in the comments with someone getting upset about this. I’d be hesitant to say that the kid must’ve had bad intentions just because someone got upset about it.
You know what you are doing and it’s not clever, cute or funny.
I’m disappointed to hear you don’t find me cute but I honestly don’t know what you mean.
Yet again the right makes up an issue for idiots to be mad about and then “fixes” the issue by being edgy instead of paying attention to real problems in the real world.
Not sure what this has to do with me. I don’t think there’s an issue to begin with tbh.
Troll blocked
Well alright
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Most could be anything from just over 50% to 99%.
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Are you for real, I said “most” because it’s a vague guess and not some actual number.
But sure, let’s say it’s 99.919191%. Repeating of course. Better? lol
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The “I’d imagine” part of the reply might’ve been a bit of a tell
I’ve had so many people claim I’m racist online for saying stuff about China. Even after I point out that I’m Chinese, it still doesn’t help for some reason.
Yeah generally dress up is fine, I think people shouldn’t be barred from wearing a costume just because their race doesn’t match. And for children especially, if they dress up to be a hero of a certain race, I think that is more representation of diversity in a good light.
However, IMO there is some due respect for that culture and it would be better to understand the significance of a dress one may wear, but if it’s intended well most should be fine with it. Using casual stereotypes and jokes cheapen the outfit which I think can be in bad taste.
Like as long as they don’t accompany it with racial slurs, I don’t think it’s a hate crime, just a bit cringey. It would be about the same level as if someone were to dress up as the Catholic Pope, a cardinal or a bishop and give people silly blessings.
I remember seeing a child have a japanese themed birthday. Some white person was giving off to her parents for cultural appropriation while Japanese people were flattered
Found it
I love this
Of course it was Tumblr
It turned out that although she looked white and her parents looked white, her extended family was actually asian. So it wasn’t even appropiation to begin with.
Still everyone needs to chill, my fellow honkeys, please stop getting offended on behalf of others. Playing the role of the “White Savior” comes off as more bigoted than progressive.
I saw a The Onion video where a white woman pledged to never say a word that began with the letter N. Not only the N word, all N words.
“I was shouted down for wearing black facepaint and white lipstick, so why does Tom get to wear a kimono?”
Ahh… The Onion, my favorite, most reliable, 100% not parodic news outlet
Yes, The Onion is satire, but we’re talking about the idea The Onion was satirizing.
I want a Green Hat that says “Make The Onion Satirical Again”
“whites”
Point taken, reworded it
Great, let’s retread the right-wing’s favorite progressive strawmen for teh lulz. Any other culture war bullshit I should feel unjustly attacked over?
A lot of these types of people are just segregationists in a different tone.
Remember the Frito Bandito? (Voiced by Mel Blanc)
No, I remember Speedy Gonzalez though.
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