I saw a post that talked about racism towards people and when I talked about it the response I got was very heated and a person even called lemmy.world a community of ‘hitlerites’
I have been around for a week or so and this is my first time seeing such explicit vulgar reaction towards another community, is this a one-off or should I block hexbear?
I just took a look at your participation in the hexbear thread you are referencing, and I’m confused about the issue. Seems like you got mostly thoughtful and positive replies. There was some .world bashing at the end including the bit you quoted. It seems strange to me that rather than ask questions about hexbear to the actual users there, you came over here to ask on an instance that has daily threads complaining about leftist instances.
Note: being on Lemmy for about a year, I didn’t live through the early days of this place. Here’s what I can recollect, as neutrally given as possible.
TL;DR The recent conflicts between two politically different groups on Lemmy have radicalized many people, and many Hexbear residents in particular. Unless you are to discuss the far-left ideas and are very radical about disadvantaged groups, you are safe to block it.
Hexbear is a far-left (as in actually communist) anti-discrimination community, initially more of a safe haven to promote equality and foster a healthy and welcoming place for leftists to come together.
With core developers of Lemmy also being far-left, Hexbear naturally fitted the landscape along with the official Lemmy.ml, heavy far-left Lemmygrad.ml and others.
As time went on, however, all sorts of left-leaning and apolitical folks, not just far-left, came to the platform, filling other instances like Lemmy.world (now the most populated of them all), sh.itjust.works and many others.
As a result, Lemmy has two groups of people with radically different political views: one is a group of more or less organized far-left, and the other is everyone else, most commonly liberals. This distinction has caused a lot of conflicts and heated discussions based on political adherence.
Most notable case is latest US elections. The far left side generally called not to vote Democrat as Biden has failed to deliver on many of his promises and empowered Israel to commit war crimes in Palestine, while the liberal audience called to vote Democrat to not let Republicans take the lead, which may arguably lead to an even worse outcome than unaccountable Dems can make.
This divide has raised a lot of mutual hostility, brigading, and uncivil behavior, which has radicalized many on both sides of the conflict, the consequences of which you have got to experience.
What to do with that is up to you to decide. Hexbear is very politically uniform and very political overall, so if you’re not here to discuss communism, you won’t lose much and will gain additional peace of mind.
Also Hexbear and Lemmygrad were populated by r/chapotraphouse and r/GenZedong users respectively when those subreddits got banned, which happened before the main Reddit exodus that populated instances like .world
This is by far the best and most informative answer. The only thing it’s missing as another couple commenters pointed out is hexbear is all about their oversized memes and emojis, making anytime you happen upon one of their posts extremely conspicuous (even if politics aren’t being discussed).
The oversized emoji bug was fixed, by the way. They display normally now on other instances.
You either block them and die a liberal or you engage and observe and live long enough to start spreading their agitprop and using your new pronoun “comrade” as you lead the way to glorious revolution.
(Seriously though, they’re just people on a leftist political instance. You’ll get the good, bad, and weird, same as any other place).
TLDR: they are right-wingers pretending to be left wing
I love this image. Something that always confused me is that they are communist, but support russia? An extremely far right government?
There’s no support for the Russian Federation. Support for the USSR? Absolutely, but not the RF. There’s critical support, as in the RF currently takes an antagonistic stance towards the United States, which many Leftists see as the greater global evil, but no leftist genuinely thinks the RF is doing that out of “good intentions” or has any model that Leftists should replicate.
That sums it up.
I’ve spoken to plenty who were way too sympathetic to Putins ‘Ukrainians are Nazis’ chat with complete disregard of the nuances.
“Tankie” here, russia sucks
we don’t, we just hate the us more.
Why would supposed right-wingers be holding Leftist theory reading groups, hosting mutual aid comms, donating to Palestinian gofundmes, and supporting trans rights to some of the highest degrees on the fediverse? Irony? Seems like a silly hypothesis.
posted from lemmy.ml
I don’t see how that discounts anything, why would right wingers create a relatively isolated community to read Marxist and Anarchist theory, protect and advocate for trans rights, and frequently pin donation threads for Palestinians? Seems like way too much effort to be ironic, and defederating from other instances would hurt their supposed goal of “trolling.”
hosting mutual aid comms
I’ve seen those posts (I have no filter)… “I need money for rent” 🦗 🦗 🦗
What does the Y axis represent here?
Technically, the X-axis doesn’t represent anything either, as the far-right plot point curves upward, rather than continuing.
The amount of mental gymnastics being done to justify their ideology
Mental gymnastics is the term given to people who read books by the mental couch and potato chip crowd.
“Y” is the name of one of the major meme/shitpost contributors on lemmy.ml
It looks like another way of drawing the political compass left/right (collective vs individual rights) on the x axis and authoritarian/libertarian (obedience to centralized authority hierarchy vs distributed political pluralism) on the y axis. Tankies and far right would be in auth q1 and q2, far left q3, and not representing q4 labeling the quadrants from top left clockwise.
If we read it as a political compass
Auth+
Lib-
Okay, that is legit hilarious and makes so much sense in retrospect.
haha love that
Bend the far right and tankies closer to the center dot.
It’s a bear with six legs
Hexbear is pretty overwhelmingly queer/trans and anarchist/communist.
If you’ve never run into a transfem communist IRL it’s probably because you’re not in many queer or left wing organizing spaces.
I’m actually pretty new to Lemmy in the last year and in that time I’ve seen way more .world posters being toxic about .ml/hexbear and making vague posts about how bad they are. I have to imagine that’s why you’re now seeing backlash to .world. Also most of the time I see people complaining about these instances and I dig into the modlog it’s overwhelmingly because they got banned at some point for being reactionary and are bent out of shape about it.
In my experience as a queer leftist, world is toxic as hell. I’ve had numerous moments where I’ve considered banning the whole instance but there’s communities on it I like. So i ban individuals who drink too much liberal kool aid and think team blue can do nothing wrong and genocide is perfectly reasonable because the other guy is worse! and they have been crying non stop since they lost and continue to blame the left for having a backbone rather than look in the mirror.
Needless to say my whole account got banned on world for being a Luigi supporter and anti-democrat. So im on an anarchist instance now, and even after a minor disagreement with an admin over the concept of copyright it’s still nice.
We disagreed on copyright?! That’s a ben, landlubber!
It had to do with AI training on data (individual peoples artwork for example) without permission.
I don’t care about corporate stuff being stolen but individual artists getting screwed doesn’t sit well with me. And it’s the one and only time I’ve ever said nice things about adobe of all companies! because they compensate artists who’s work they train their ai on.
Guess I’m gonna have to change instances again lololol (please don’t ban me I like it here)
I was clearly joking! all good!
which instance, if you don’t mind sharing? I’m not looking to move, but it’s good to understand the landscape.
Why don’t you asked them yourself? !askchapo@hexbear.net
Probably a bad idea to ask about a Marxist instance on a .world community, since .world is known to be quite biased against Marxism.
Or at the very least @kaprap, make a similar thread in !asklemmy@lemmy.ml, it’ll give them a chance to speak for themselves.
I’ve frequently noted that you tend to get a very one sided answer when you ask, for instance, Mormons about Mormonism. Likewise, I wouldn’t expect a balanced and fair assessment of hexbear by asking hexbear mods and users.
The opposite is true, when you only ask people not federated with Hexbear you get equally imbalanced opinions. OP already did that, may as well ask on Hexbear as well to get the other side of the story.
Huh. Interesting that everyone not federated with Hexbear would have a imbalanced/negative opinion of them, wouldn’t you say? Why do you suppose that might be?
Hexbear removes any questions or opinions they don’t agree with. They heavily censor the discussion and consider it a feature of their community.
Other Lemmy servers allow a diversity of thought and opinion. They allow people to question and disagree.
It’s not about sides of the story, it’s the difference between free discussion of individuals versus a standardized party line that cannot be questioned. The former tends to expose the truth, while the latter tends to obfuscate the truth.
Lemmy.world doesn’t allow any opinions from Hexbear, they defederated from them. That is more censorship, though less obvious because you don’t see the comments getting removed. Even then, comments still get removed for going against the “party line” as well, usually comments critiquing the Democrats.
What’s more correct is that Hexbear is more open and up front with its bias, while instances like Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works try to pretend that they don’t hold bias.
That’s completely incorrect, there are hundreds of hexbear users commenting on this thread right now, using the alt accounts which they are allowed to make here. Or am I expected to believe that the 400 comments on this thread were simply normal Lemmy users who felt like defending hexbear? Give me a break.
Any hexbear account (or federated account) that expresses a disallowed opinion quickly gets banned and the comments purged, so that hexbears can maintain their echo chamber. What an absurd argument, claiming that defederation is in any way comparable to active censorship of content. You don’t even get to see the comments that get removed on hexbear because they purge them, leaving no trace. No comment removed by mod, nothing in the modlog.
Don’t fucking equate my instance to hexbear, I can see right through you, charlatan. You can run and hide from the truth all you like, but it will come for you eventually.
Do you think every user that likes Hexbear is a Hexbear user? Moreover, full defederation is the greatest act of censorship. I’m not equating sh.itjust.works to Hexbear, I generally have better experiences and run into far less bigotry on Hexbear. Your edgy monologue was funny, though, lol.
Not every single one, just the vast majority.
Moreover, full defederation is the greatest act of censorship.
How so, comrade? Explain to me how defederating a violent and hateful server is more of an act of censorship than… literal, by the book censorship.
You are a hexbear user, so it’d make sense that you have a better experience within your cult than outside it. Hexbear is more bigoted than any other Lemmy server, by a wide margin.
Hexbear users will bully you to hell the very second you say something they disagree with. In my case, I said South Park is a funny show. They also think Putin is a good guy and at the same time they pretend 90% of their users are trans. Basically it’s a bunch of douche kids playing revolutionaries and intimating anyone they disagree with. My 2 cents.
I’ve never seen anybody on hexbear say Putin is a good guy. And it seems pretty transphobic to say that they’re just pretending to be trans.
I’ve never seen anybody on hexbear say Putin is a good guy
Well I’ve seen a lot of user refusing to say he’s a authoritarian dictator so it’s basically saying he’s a good guy.
The same thing goes with refusing to vote Harris: that was basically saying you don’t mind letting Epstein’s closest friend rule the country because you don’t want to vote for a “lib”. Good job.
And again, I didn’t say people are pretending to be trans, I said I don’t trust Internet polls, especially anything that mones from hexbear. It seem hard to understand for you, but it’s not the same.
Now here’s my question: are you trans yourself? Because if you’re not, that would be incredibly transphobic and discriminating from you to pretend you can speak in the name of a minority group. Please reassure me.
Look man, if you’re just going to engage in this kind of wildly bad faith behavior, I really don’t see any point in continuing to engage.
I agree that this is not going anywhere But I’m not speaking in bad faith, I’m sharing observations from interactions I had with Hexbear users. Maybe you should ask yourself why, on a left-leaning website like Lemmy, almost all the instances have chosen to dissociate from Hexbear. Maybe if you believe everyone around you sucks, you’re the one that does.
Also, why can you just answer my last question? It’s a fair question since every god damn time the hexbear subject is brought, people like you call tranpshobic anyone who dares to criticize it. I will give you much more credibility on the subject if being trans is your reality. BTW, why would you call me “man”? Bold of you to assume that I’m a man.
🙄
Lots of accusations but can’t answer questions.
Cis man declares himself the arbiter of trans-ness, only trans people who agree with him politically are valid. (He’s an ally okay, don’t point out his rampant transphobia or he gets pissy)
Yerbouti is a thin-skinned french canadian who is still bitter to this day that he went to a chapo show and they made fun of french canadians.
Hexbear has published numbers, around half the users identify as trans. Are you saying users pretend that number is higher, or are you saying that the users reporting to be trans are pretending? Neither is accurate, but the latter is incredibly transphobic.
Additionally, no one thinks Putin is a good guy.
I’m saying I don’t believe anything that comes from Hexbear, and I definitely do not believe half of their users are trans. I already had that discussion so I have 0 interest in discussing with you people. People don’t magicaly become transphobe just because you said so, stop appropriating other people’s reality. And yes, most of their users are tankies pro-putin and pro Chinese government.
“You people”, huh?
The claim that they’re pro-Putin relies on no one actually going there to check, because they very much aren’t.
Also yeah, denying people’s identity just because you disagree with their politics is pretty transphobia
Discrediting the gender identity of transgender people because they don’t agree with you politically is transphobia.
It’s not what I’m doing. I’m saying I give this survey as much credibility as any internet survey: none.
It’s exactly what you’re doing. Spend any time there at all and the results are entirely unsurprising, the fact that you confidently discredit and doubt trans users despite doing no research into the subject is transphobic.
Thanks but I prefer to take advices on trans reality directly from trans people. Meanwhile you can keep rely on username like “che_superstar97”(btw haven’t we met before Cowbee?). Oh, and have you heard, the proudboys just release an internal survey, 98% of them are not racist.
This person (yerbouti) is an embarrassment, thinks it’s OK to be a reactionary so long as you pick safe targets.
I’d post my fucking estradiol bottle but 1. meds/diagnosis aren’t a requirement to be trans 2. I don’t owe transphobes like you shit
I love going there and bullying them. Its my fav pass time when they had enough they just delete all my post cause they are malding! They also like to call it their platform which I always correct them on …
To be clear, your posts are largely removed not just from Hexbear but other instances for rampant misogyny and general manosphere talking points, as well as getting into constant fights with other users.
Thank you for your interest in me.
Hexbear.net is a Left-Unity instance populated mainly by Marxists and Anarchists. They generally don’t get along with Lemmy.world, whose admins defederated from the major Marxist-aligned instances.
Whether you block Hexbear is up to you, I enjoy my time there a lot but it’s also because I’m a Marxist. The ones saying they are “pretending” to be Leftist never seem to be able to explain why a large group of people would all ironically have theory reading groups and ironically support trans rights for years, even before federating with anyone else. What would they have to gain?
If I were you, I’d ask on an instance actually federated with them. You’ll get different perspectives than you will here, which is always the case when it comes to controversial topics like Marxism, where opinion varies greatly from instance to instance.
I really don’t think they are a left-unity instance considering that they get very upset and unpleasant to talk to if you don’t support authoritarianism or their alternative “facts.”
Like I’m cool with all sorts of different leftist viewpoints and I think it’s necessary that we support each other, but I draw the line at authoritarianism and rewriting history.
Anarchists are explicitly welcome, so authoritarianism is definitely not a requirement. And what “alternative facts”?
Things like the denial of the tiananmen square massacre or claiming that North Korea is a free and prosperous nation, both of which I have seen with my own two eyes on hexbear.
While I am not an anarchist, generally I am cool with them. Who I am not cool with are Marxist-Leninists, which are authoritarian.
From the wikipedia article on Marxist-Leninists:
In the words of historians Silvio Pons and Robert Service, elections are “generally not competitive, with voters having no choice or only a strictly limited choice”. Generally, when alternative candidates have been allowed to stand for election, they have not been allowed to promote very different political views.
51·3 days agoThe people of the soviet union, at least as far as Pat Sloan experienced in ~1937, had the most limited choice: any person
I have, while working in the Soviet Union, participated in an election. I, too, had a right to vote, as I was a working member of the community, and nationality and citizenship is no bar to electoral rights. The procedure was extremely simple. A general meeting of all the workers in our organization was called by the trade union committee, candidates were discussed, and a vote was taken by show of hands. Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, and the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party. In considering the claims of the candidates their past activities were discussed, they themselves had to answer questions as to their qualifications, anybody could express an opinion, for or against them, and the basis of all the discussion was: What justification had the candidates to represent their comrades on the local Soviet?
As far as the elections in the villages were concerned, these took place at open village meetings, all peasants of voting age, other than those who employed labour, having the right to vote and to stand for election. As in the towns, any organization or individual could put forward candidates, anyone could ask the candidate questions, and anybody could support or oppose the candidature. It is usual for the Communist Party to put forward a candidate, trade unions and other organizations can also do so, and there is nothing to prevent the Party’s candidate from not being elected, if he has not sufficient prestige among the voters.Several things in there I dislike:
Raising hands does not seem like an accurate way vote. Peasants who employed labor couldn’t vote. People could vote even if they weren’t citizens. No mention of being able to vote for non-communists. There are trade-unions and other candidates but it doesn’t mention their political alignment
To defend non-citizens voting, the Soviets valued labor over nationalism and anyone could vote despite not being citizens if they worked there. Kinda like if the US allowed immigrants to vote who weren’t yet citizens.
Trade Unions were often independent as well. Really, the book itself is fascinating.
I support immigration but allowing non-citizens to vote seems like an easy way for foreign governments to swing elections in their favor.
Yes, I get that the trade unions were their own thing but that doesn’t mean they can’t also be communist.
No mention of being able to vote for non-communists
???
Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party
???
I don’t really understand what you’re getting at here, you’re being very vague. I’m a Marxist, I enjoy my time there, I don’t really think I can say I share your same views on it.
When the instance I’m on was still federated with hexbear I did go and check them out to see what they had to say and with my own two eyes I saw people there denying the tiananmen square massacre and claiming that North Korea is a free and prosperous nation. Not to mention that when visiting other instances, such as the one I’m on, many would be extremely rude, which is why they got defederated.
Hexbear’s stance, and most Marxists in general, on Tian’anmen is that hundreds of protestors and PLA officers were killed in Beijing that day as the PLA advanced towards the square, but that the square itself was evacuated peacefully, which matches leaked US cables and the CPC’s official stance on what it calls the “June 4th incident”. This is a rejection of the commonly reported story of 10,000 people being killed on the square itself, which originated from a British diplomat’s cable. Said diplomat was later confirmed to have evacuated well before.
I reiterate, Hexbear’s stance isn’t that the massacre didn’t happen, but that Western nations intentionally sensationalize the quantity of deaths and the character of the events. This is also why Western Nations don’t frequently report on the South Korean Gwang-Ju massacre that occured around the same era, where the South Korean millitary murdered thousands of High School and College students protesting against Chun Do-Hwan’s dictatorship. All of what I said is backed up by the Wikipedia page for Tian’anmen Square Protests and Massacre, such as Alan Donald revising his estimate from 10,000 to the low thousands yet BBC continuing to report the 10,000 figure:
In a disputed cable sent in the aftermath of the events at Tiananmen, British Ambassador Alan Donald initially claimed, based on information from a “good friend” in the State Council of China, that a minimum of 10,000 civilians died,[237] claims which were repeated in a speech by Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke,[238] but which is an estimated number much higher than other sources provided.[239][240] After the declassification, former student protest leader Feng Congde pointed out that Donald later revised his estimate to 2,700–3,400 deaths, a number closer to, but still much higher than, other estimates.[241]
As for the DPRK, I’d have to see what you mean as an example. The common consensus is that the DPRK has a well-documented “defector storytelling industry” where defectors are paid for outlandish stories, and due to their unverifiability gets passed on as truth. A good documentary on this subject is Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul. Therefore, really, very little can be trusted on the subject. Brutal executions being reported such as one official being eaten to death by 120 dogs end up being reported uncritically, despite said official turning up alive later and the story originating from a Chinese satirical column, akin to the Onion.
This is where the joke of “Juche Necromancy” comes from, because supposedly executed officials regularly turn up alive.
The reason they got defederated from so many major instances is less to do with the politics and more to do with the spam, brigading, and bad faith interactions that had no intention of civility.
You can tell someone is terminally reddit brained when they’re still accusing people from federated instances of “brigading”.
This is objectively untrue, Lemmy.world refused to ever federate, as, in their own words, a “pre-emptive last resort”.
In their statement, the reasoning they explicitly highlighted was Hexbear’s stances like being against western propaganda and disliking the mass overseas wars driven by the US. Don’t believe me? You can read it here - https://lemmy.world/post/2498330
So no, Hexbear was very explicitly defederated because of politics.
The world mods also outright support Israel.
Credit where credit is due, youre honest and youre correct. Have my upvote!
I try to be both, lol. Thanks!
Left-Unity instance
I doubt it or I’d be over there. Instead, I got attacked and mocked by a circlejerking mob of angsty teens from Hexbear operating in bad faith for remotely questioning something about communism and then got permabanned from Lemmy.ml. I didn’t even attack it! 😂
Remember that they don’t consider liberals to be leftists
Do you have a link? Would be interested to see.
I’ll do you one better, why is Hexbear??
Hexbear, lemmygrad and (in great part) lemmy.ml are tankie instances.
They basically deny any crimes of Stalin, Mao etc…
I mean Mao greatly regretted his plans and was very sad they didnt work, he went onto become a vegan and grow his own food as to not get the food meant for the workers
It’s a tankie instance. You’re not missing anything important or reality-based by blocking it. You should also block lemmy.ml.
In fact, you should block everything and everyone expect for a small walled garden of committed neoliberals
If I wanted to hang out in an ideological ghetto, I’d unblock lemmy ml.
I would block hexbear. I’ve done it server-wide. They are mostly very loud trolls pretending to be communists. Some could be actual communists, but I don’t buy anyone actually wanting to be in such a toxic environment and believe what they claim to believe.
To add to your comment: Blocking the instance at user level is pointless, it only blocks their posts,not their users, so you still have to deal with their bullshit and they post their propaganda at every instance that tolerates them so it makes its way to those who blocked it anyway.
The only solution is to defederate.User blocking also doesn’t block votes so they’ll also still influence your feed.
“A self help group for people who struggle with solvent abuse.”
Best answer in this thread.
Here’s my take…
They’re more cohesive and insular than most groups you’ll find on social media.
They’ve brewed their own strongly held culture and ideology.
Many are also used to being ostracised by other communities due to sexual preferences or other personal attributes.
The result is, if you naively post in a thread in which they are active your opinion will get stomped on if it does not directly align with theirs.
Many are also used to being ostracised by other communities due to sexual preferences or other personal attributes.
Based on their polling, most are trans and based on reading their posts for the last year, most are sick of the rampant transphobia on pretty much every social media platform, including on lemmy
Yes, that’s what I said, only more delicately.
You’ll find a good amount of transphobia on this post too, proving them correct. One user is directly attacking trans users by claiming that the trans user is “faking it” and attacked another user by defending chasers, calling chasers “allies.”
It’s really everywhere for those with the eyes to see.
Absolutely, and despite reporting many of them they seem to stay up.
