For some reason I’ve just never liked Spider-Man. He comes off as a whiney, ignorant child that never seems to grow up or mature despite everything he goes through. I love a good coming of age story, but he just never seems to become an adult.
Tony Stark - oligarchic propagandist for normalizing the myth of exceptionalism
The thing about his movie is that he was like, almost okay. Iron Man I was about him learning that selling weapons = bad. He could have continued his moral development.
Instead, we got him fighting Captain America over a very stupid implementation of ‘oversight’ (coming from the guy who refuses to let gov. oversee his iron man development), being creepy to some random boy he just met (actually twice - first Peter and then some kid I don’t remember; in a better set of movies I don’t think Peter would be very thrilled to realize Iron Man was advocating for Peter to get outed in a national registry), and having a snit fit about how he doesn’t want to help Unsnap people who died because he personally is OK with his future with his daughter who may or may not be a robot he built to mime having humanity.What makes him really insufferable for me is his fans who think Captain America is EVIL for daring to snub poor Tony, and that Tony should go date Loki (no I’m not kidding; while I am happy with Loki being queer, I really can’t see the Marvel Universe Tony being a good date for, well, anyone ever, nor Loki being a good date until he works out his genocidal tendency issues at which point he threatens to become alas a much less interesting character).
Eh, people only fawn over him because RDJ is just perfect in the role, and in a way marked his comeback from some really public struggles.
Chris Evans is great (and a huuunk!) but he’s was/is much younger and plays the role of Government-BrandedHeroWhoIsBasicallyJustSoldierWhoAteHisWheaties.
Chris does the job well, but I mean, RDJ kills, and IMHO is a massive reason marvel got to continue making movies.
I found that Tony’s slide to fascism following his PTSD and thinking he knew better than everyone else was a good character development in a show where he’s not the hero. What we’re missing is a 4th solo movie where he faces his fuck-ups and his selfishness, but no, he went out like a hero through sacrifice after causing it and blaming the rift on Cap (when returning from Titan).
I also found that early Steve really needed to get a better angry face, but that evolved well between Infinity War and Endgame.
Stark was literally written to be a character that people should by all rights despise but was nonetheless a hero. That was entirely the point of him.
Also Batman.
Superman. He just does everything and wins. Unless you show him a green rock.
It’s stupid. I don’t understand how it ever interested anyone.
He’s OK if you stick to classic Superman. He wasn’t a god, back then. Couldn’t turn back time, out-speed The Flash, or fly into the sun and pupate for a hundred years into some ultimate being.
He became increasingly absurd over the years.
I’m a big fan of Supes myself, but it depends on who’s writing him and what the goal is.
He is at his best when it’s a problem he can’t punch away, it’s about courage, and honor of defending others. Superman without powers is still the same stand up powerful character, that is crux of what makes him interesting.
Yeah, I don’t think that it’s a fantastic recipe for a character. The powers restrict the plots.
I think that less-potent powers tend to make for better story.
A lot of fictional series in various formats – not just comic books – make characters or events more-important or more-powerful over the course of the series, to top each previous episode, and I think that the plots tend to become increasingly constrained late in a lot of series.
I love the version of Superman where he growing up and is friends with Luthor and he’s like ‘I cannot tell him my secret because my dad would disapprove’ and it’s got accidental closeted queer vibes.
And there’s this comic book (not in the same continuity) where Luthor is this mad genius who escapes from prison easily and Clark interviews him and he’s like “I like you Clark, you’re so humble and down to Earth, but I hate Superman who is the opposite of that.”
and then Lois likes Superman more than Clark, at least to start with, in some versions I think.
And then with Brainiac there’s the possible storyline of ‘this computer has a lot of information stored on my lost culture but he is also an existential risk to all sapients everywhere in the galaxy ahhhhggg’.
And how will Clark deal with an environment where everyone is hostile to immigrants when he is one himself and also dedicated to upholding the law?
And the first comic where he interacts with Batman is actually fairly good: Batman threatens to bomb people if Superman unmasks him and Superman is like ‘oh shit, he is not lying, I can hear his heartbeat’, but Batman was actually threatening to explode himself. And the cartoon where Batman is fighting Brainiac and his costume gets ripped to reveal he was Superman all along was hilarious: “I did not predict this possibility.” The Justice League series in general (part of the same continuity) was pretty good actually.I like the potential stories there. There’s so many emotional possibilities. Stories where he just punches stuff are indeed boring. He is, frankly, under-utilized as a character imo because many writers don’t understand that, or think the solution is to make a version of him that is evil which still involves him punching stuff, or because they’re scared to actually touch on political issues like immigration or queerness. (can you imagine how many people would explode if Luthor was an ex-boyfriend for both him and Lois and they bonded over how shitty Luthor was as a date lol.)
it’s his ideals make him interesting, his nemesis litterally is an evil billonaire
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you are too focussed on the x vs y aspect of the stories. To me fights are the least interesting part you should read all star superman
It’s stupid because you don’t understand it? Aeems like you are the dumb one then.
Jane Foster when she was the wielder of Mjolnir. Not for anything about her personally, but the fact that Thor was treated as a codename. It’s the dude’s actual name, it’d be like if Sam Wilson went around introducing himself as Steve Rogers when he took the Captain America mantle. It’s happened a few other times like with Eric Masterson, but at least he had the excuse that for most of the time he used the name he and the actual Thor were sharing a body.
The thing is that, as you said, it’s happened several times before. Beta Ray Bill, Red Norvell, Eric Masterson… it’s been established for a long time that in the Marvel universe the title of Thor, God of Thunder, may be held by people who aren’t Thor Odinson (and that he might occasionally lose it, though so far only temporarily, at least in the main continuity).
Marvel ran a miniseries called “Battleworld.” Yadda yadda, Dr. Doom a single planet composed of all the different Marvel timelines. The police force controlling everything is the Thor Corps, which includes dozens of different iterations of Thor, including a Groot Thor.
Don’t hate spiderman. Hate the writers roughly since 2000 that only let him have a break from misery when he’s in an alternate universe where he never became spider man.
Having been introduced to Spider-Man through comic books, I always disliked him. And the comics came out well prior to the 2000s. I always just found him obnoxious.
I have to assume you’ve only seen the Spider-Man movies of recent years and not the comics, the original live action show, or the 90’s animated series.
All of those go well into Peter Parker’s adult years and he’s a much more likeable character. I don’t particularly like what they have done to him in the modern stuff (outside of Spiderverse since Miles is a totally different person anyway). It doesn’t help that it’s been rebooted 3 times so all they’ve shown is his origin story a bunch of times. I can’t stand modern Spidey, either. And it’s extra infuriating because Spider-Man is my favorite.
Superman.
He’s just a dude that was made of perfection. Nothing can go too wrong for him. Perfectly strong. Perfectly sound. Perfectly everything.
Yes I know and am aware of the arcs he’s been in where writers have tried to give Superman internal challenges and struggles about who he is as a superhero. But it’s like he’s going to bounce back from it all anyways because he’s walking perfection.
And a lot of over-compensating guys idolize that.
He epitomizes a lot of what I don’t like about comics. He was strong and fast compared to earth people… And that’s it. The thing about being able to leap tall buildings in a single bound? Yeah, he had to jump because he couldn’t actually fly. Then he gained flight, xray vision, laser eyer, frost breath, and a ton of other convenient bullshit.
And batman is just a rich guy that beats up mentally ill people for fun, with young boy sidekicks in tights. Captain sunshine from venture bros kind of nailed him.
The Flash. No list of reasons. Just never appealed to me at all.
Specifically Ezra Miller. God damn, fuck that guy.
Batman. He’s a billionaire playboy living in a city full of poverty. He may not kill but he has no problem crippling someone for life. And the fact he apparently learns nothing about the joker over the decades has resulted in so so many people dying to the joker’s schemes.
And the reality is that he’s still that same child in that alley but in an adult’s body. He takes on different child robins because he never grew past that. He has trauma that was never treated and one of the main symptoms of trauma is being stuck in the time period that the trauma happened. He doesn’t really have a personality beyond the trauma.
Cyclops. What a toolbox.
And in the X-Men ‘97 reboot, WOW! have they ramped up the toolbox factor.
Deadpool. He’s not funny, he’s just obnoxious.
That’s kind of the point of Deadpool, though.
Fuuuuuuck…
I hated how he became the symbol now of people who’re desperately quirky. You couldn’t throw a damn rock without it hitting some average person who closely associates with Deadpool because “he’s like me! I say and do random shit for the lulz and so does he and that’s all foonay!”.
And yes he is fucking obnoxious to the nth degree, he isn’t creatively written or crafty with his wits. People just think “oh Deadpool is totally the guy who’d ride a unicorn into battle…BECAUSE IT’S DEADPOOL! HAW HAW HAW!!”. Like I don’t think I want Deadpool to be overly serious or edgy, I just want him to be written not in the way he is now. I just feel there could be more there because he’s not a character anymore - he’s noise. Loud and obnoxious noise.
I really can’t stand Damian Wayne I just find him annoying and bratty.
If anyone has any good story recommendations with him I would like to hear about it.
That’s why I liked Super Sons so much. Damians saltiness gets perfectly balanced out by Jon’s sweetness.
That’s also why Bats amd Supes are such a good duo, they play off each other and through that complete each other.
Damn you Brandis for taking Super Sons from us Angrily shakes fist at sky
That sounds good, I look into it. I do love Bat and Super team up, and it sounds like it can be similar.
Stories where someone slaps the dogshit out of him?
She-Hulk, read a few of the comics, saw another version, I don’t get the appeal. So she’s a lawyer, so is Daredevil, it’s a job that doesn’t lend itself well to perilous adventures. Filing a brief…at the edge of madness! She forgot that the county clerk’s office is closed on Memorial Day (US observed)!!! Dun dun duuuunnn
So she’s a lawyer, so is Daredevil, it’s a job that doesn’t lend itself well to perilous adventures.
Perry Mason’s kind of a Sherlock Holmes-type character. Not a superhero, but a lawyer character who does get into dangerous situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Mason
Perry Mason is a fictional character, an American criminal defense lawyer who is the main character in works of detective fiction written by Erle Stanley Gardner. Perry Mason features in 82 novels and 4 short stories, all of which involve a client being charged with murder, usually involving a preliminary hearing or jury trial. Typically, Mason establishes his client’s innocence by finding the real murderer. The character was inspired by famed Los Angeles criminal defense attorney Earl Rogers.
Ok, put Mason in yellow spandex and we’ll see.
I kinda hate all spin-off superheroes. Supergirl, Superdog, Batgirl; although it’s mostly _Girl versions of _Man. You never see WonderMan. WhitePanther wouldn’t get much love. It just feels like wringing the ol’ franchise of every last drop of blood.
Sometimes it bites me. SpiderVerse is supposed to be good, but it breaks my spin-off Rule.
You never see WonderMan.
googles
Apparently not a “spin-off”, though it looks like there was some friction over the relationship to Wonder Woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Man
Marvel Comics’ then-publisher Stan Lee said in 1978, “You know, years ago we brought out Wonder Man, and [DC Comics] sued us because they had Wonder Woman, and… I said okay, I’ll discontinue Wonder Man. And all of a sudden they’ve got Power Girl [after Marvel had introduced Power Man]. Oh, boy. How unfair.”[7]
Nice sleuthing!
I didn’t mean so much similar names, as identical characters differing only by gender/race.
White Panther
This idea is like nitroglycerine
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LOL they should have named him “White Power Wolf.” Maybe that’d have helped.
Yeah, spin offs aren’t my thing, except for Frasier.
Hulk. He’s an angry green guy with muscles, created with gamma radiation, nothing special. After a while, he feels less like a super hero and more like a Super Smash Bros fighter.
For this same reason, he’s one of my favorites.
Yeah, out of all of the superheroes that have the spotlight, Hulk’s is one I just don’t find as special as others. His stories are all bland and limited. His rogue gallery of opponents aren’t even challenging because he easily defeats all of them and there are so few that were memorable.
And the way his powers work is laughable, because the only way he ever gets strong is just by being angrier? It’s totally unimaginative and soundingly lazy. Like it sounds thought of by some angry internet user who dreams of getting angry and strong to “git back at them internet bullies!” kind of deal.
Modern Batman and Modern Superman.
I won’t go on my 2 hour rant off everything wrong. But a short version is the writing for them is lazy and undeveloped. Both of them represent the most uninteresting form of a power fantasy. The modern Batman of ‘having a plan for everything’ and being this overburden angsty character is just awful. If Batman was a d&d character, he has loaded dice and is throwing that 20s on intimidation. And for Superman he’s just not interesting, because with the amount of power he’s been given and the amount of abilities he has the fact that lex luthor is somehow a villain of his is laughable.
Batman used to be the world’s greatest detective. And for me the last time I saw Batman be Batman was the '90s animated series. And frankly the most recent movie The Batman also did a very good job I thought in that regard.
Superman used to have limits. He was fast but not infinite speed fast. He was strong but not infinite strength.
In both cases it feels like the people who write for these characters use one simple rule… This my favorite character so he win. Neither character feels like their struggles are earned, because the writing is forced. Like it used to be if Superman needed to save somebody you weren’t 100% sure he’d be able to get there in time, stop the bad guy save the people! Modern Superman is like, a being a hundred light years away, tripped and their falling! They need your help before they get a boo-boo and I have no doubt Superman would get there somehow and then save a hundred worlds along the way. (An over-exaggeration I know but I want to get the point across at how lazy I feel the writing is). Or the fact that anybody fears Batman when most of his villains barely fear him. You have members like Green lantern, Martian manhunter, Superman, and Wonder woman who act like in any way Batman is a threat to them.
I’ll stop ranting cuz I can honestly go on. But I will say with the massive decline for me personally with these two, I’ve been far more receptive of some of the other DC characters that I used to overlook when I was younger. I can’t believe I 100% slept on the flash like that dude is straight boss. Or plastic man! So at least some good came of it.
Robin from the batman franchise, his character seems so extra and forced.
The original, too? He was the epitome of the necessary sidekick, and have Batman an external voice, other than just growing at criminals.
I love the classic TV Dynamic Duo.
I don’t like robin but was collecting comics when he took on the nightwing persona and that sorta coincided with teen titans being pretty awesome and suddenly I liked the character. It made me actually like more of the robin characters including dick before the change.
I went through a goth phase, too; I liked the Nolan reboot, and Nightwing was sufficiently angsty; now I’m just tired of it. I think it peaked in Game of Thrones - you can’t get much more depressingly negative than that - but I hope it swings back around to the golden age of optimism. You see signs, in movements like Solarpunk, but we’ve got a long way to go.
not sure I even went through a goth phase. its a lot like my music tastes. what society calls it has changed but it feels all the same to me. dork, geek, nerd, hippie, hipster. ok a bit of a change from childhood and adulthood there :). I am a doomer though but the must try kind. So pretty negative in that way but I still follow reduce, reuse, recycle
Don’t you think all of the grimdark/cyberpunk/Dark Night stuff that started happening in the 90s is essentially goth
leadingleaking* into media? It all started happening in the same decade, and has been pervasive since.Edit fscking autocorrect
I likely do not have a good perspective of that as it basically is when I went to college so I did not have the time I had especially when you take early career as well especially because I went an extra year, did one year in a PhD program and then after a year of work started looking to switch careers By the time I was back into things video/audio/gaming media got so good that text went the way of the dodo for me but even with that I have a good like decade of being not very plugged in.
The Adam West version is all good, I forgot about that one.
The live-action TV series was kind of like some of the early comic books I’ve seen – the characters tooling around openly during the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjIEBCVFaGM
I think I prefer the darker approach, where stuff happens at night.
They’re almost different characters, aren’t they? I’m fond of the original shows, but that’s nostalgia.
