Personally I think a large part of the lack of outrage over the first four is that no one who watched the movies had heard of the source material. People who watch Marvel movies don’t tend to read the comics, but Ariel was a Disney movie (one of the most famous of all time) remade as another Disney movie.
Personally, I think the lack of outrage is because the people who get outraged by black people being cast for roles that were previously white characters, aren’t concerned when it’s white people being cast no matter the source material.
“Personally, I just want to chalk this up to racism so I can be upset about it”
Name one outrage among conservatives in the US when a white person was cast for a role that was any other ethnicity in the source material. Sure, it happens on the Left, Netflix is especially accused of white washing (recent example: Three Body Problem). But, conservatives don’t give a shit when it happens the other way around.
Regardless, I truly couldn’t give a shit who gets cast for what regardless of source material. If the actor/actress is able to play the part well, I come for entertainment and couldn’t care less.
People made a big deal over Sean Connery in The Highlander, although no one was really offended. It was just another joke
There aren’t many conservatives on Lemmy. Why bother talking about what they think?
“Personally, I just want to chalk it up for people being mad for no reason so I can feel safe in my view that racism is over because Barack Obama or something.”
Could this be because people don’t tend to get mad over things they don’t know exist? Naaaaah, must be racism. Anyone who disgagrees that racism is the most likely explanation thinks racism is fake.
What is it with leftists and making mountains out of molehills?
I am a silly little ignorant guy therefore everyone else is a silly little ignorant guy, I am the very model of a modern human.
I’d pull up statistics on movie ticket sales versus comic book sales and point out that the movie outsold the comics by (conservatively) 200 to 1, but there’s no point bringing facts into an argument against a troll.
Thank you for sharing this. I never know why I feel so annoyed at people who are mad about it, but this is it.
This is why “All lives matter” makes no sense
I like to think of it like a broken bone. Yes, your overall health is important; no one is questioning that. But if you go into the ER with a broken bone and the doctor tells you that they’re going to ignore your injury in favor of telling you to take your vitamins, they’re an asshole who doesn’t care about your pain or healing your injury.
Systemic racism is the broken bone. No one (except, perhaps, assholes and billionaires) disagrees that all lives have value. Saying “all lives matter” in response to “black lives matter,” though, is saying “let’s wilfully ignore the problem because I am clearly okay with the status quo.”
Edit to fix typo.
My favorite analogy for this, and the one that really made me ‘get it’, was posted on Reddit a number of years ago, and was something to the effect of:
Imagine you’re sitting around the dinner table with your family, and your dad is passing around a bowl of mashed potatoes. However, instead of handing it to you, it gets passed right by you to your sister. And you speak up and say, “I should get some, too!” Your dad looks at you and says, “Everyone should get some,” and the family continues passing the bowl around as before. And you’re thinking, yes, that’s true - everyone should get some, but only one of us is not getting any right now and pointing out that everyone should get some doesn’t make me any less hungry.
Those people will tell you they’re not racist, that’s why there is no systemic racism. They think you are being racist for singling that out when there was none. Could it be a large part denial, lack of awareness? Or is that just a claim to explain their outrage?
We have a movement in Canada called “Every Child Matters” due to indigenous history. The most annoying thing to experience is the same idiots who complain about BLM commenting on this one. “Black Lives Matter? What the hell dude, ALL lives matter!” then 5 minutes later saying “Every Child Matters? No shit, what a stupid movement name!” Can’t win with these folks.
Some folk annoyed you posting, I hope they have a mildly bad day scrubbbles.
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To me, the weirdest one was Johnny Depp as a Native American. Like I couldn’t wrap my head around it in the movie. I kept thinking the plot was that he was a delusional person who believed he was Native American.
Would’ve been funny
I though he was some kind of “ally”, like a white guy that jumped the fence and joined the Native cause or raised by natives.
I also thought it was basically Jack Sparrow 2.0
If it’s bad to use white actors for black (or other colored) roles then it’s bad for black actors to do white roles. If it’s okay to do those switches then it’s okay for all. Forget colors it shouldn’t matter.
Having said that, Disney just did the Ariel thing ffor the “look at us being sooooo progressive, please give us your money for this utterly shit movie” instead of trying to just make a great movie
I think people need to figure out if the race of a character is culturally significant in any way in the context of the story and IRL. Like, part of Black Panther’s whole deal is he’s from Africa. Hard to budge on that character’s ethnicity. Ariel from the Little Mermaid could literally be any ethnicity and the story would remain the same. Crying about white erasure is pathetic when no actual culture relevant to white western people is being lost.
A big issue here, especially with the MCU stuff, is that it’s not a skin color thing with those changes. They updated the whole character in order to make them into races that are more friendly to China. They’ve done this repeatedly and stripped identities and character traits from characters over and over again.
Every single Romani character that’s appeared in an MCU movie has had their heritage removed and replaced with generic white. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are good examples (since they’re the ones in the meme) but I don’t see any way that Robert Downey Jr is going to be able to do the complicated Romani backstory of Dr Doom very well.
I agree that Ariel was swapped for marketing reasons (and arguably specifically to cause outrage and get people talking) Ariel doesn’t have a racial heritage that plays into her life and identity… She’s a mermaid from the sea… Not a member of a group with a large history of being discriminated against.
At this point, I’d be surprised if there was anybody outside of China that actually watches Marvel content.
It’s definitely a cynical move by Disney no matter how you slice it.
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“If you think we’re super woke, you go support the movie. We get money.”
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“If you hate it (because we thought a superficial change would cover the fact we barely tried), it’s because you’re a nasty racist bigotface, your opinion is disregarded, galvanizes our first crowd into giving us more money, and angry actually-racist bloggers probably hate-watch it while advertising it for free. We get money.”
Ain’t the culture wars grand (if you’re selling to both sides like a proper arms dealer)? :D
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The original actress/singer for Ariel absolutely dominated that role as well, and really the whole cast was damn near perfect. It’s one of the few Disney Princess movies that should have been left alone.
Literally every single live action remake that Disney has created has been inferior in every single way to the originals. Aladdin, The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, all terrible cash-grabby productions (esp. TLK, good lord it’s bad).
I enjoyed Beauty and the Beast. shrug
It’s fine. I like plenty of movies that aren’t criterion level cinema. The remakes are cashgrabs meant to capitalize on your nostalgia though.
So what is white if Romani isn’t? I really do not understand the American concept of race, for me they are all humans.
Hating Romani is more a European thing.
I’ve heard plenty of the usual stereotypes passed along by americans. When it comes right down to it, most people are happy to repeat what they’ve heard about any ‘others.’ It really takes someone special to fight against that by trying to not have ‘others’ in their life (i.e. by accepting all as their in-group).
Roma people have historically been very persecuted because of racism and ethnocentrism. Case in point: the holocaust killed up to 500,000 Romani people, but the actual figures are not known. Roma people are among the groups that are rarely talked about when the Holocaust is mentioned, despite losing up to 50% of their total population at the time.
Arab and North African folks are usually considered white on the US census but that isn’t really an accurate picture.
Race is a social construct that doesn’t have clear borders. Racial categories mostly exist as a way of creating division and limiting access to resources, to flatten the diversity of individual cultures represented by a racial category… or to inflict direct and systemic violence. The experience of being a racialized person is entirely the creation of the society that a person lives within; for example, African folks usually don’t self-identify as “black,” within Africa, but that’s an important racialized experience that people can speak to in a place like the US.
So what is white if Romani isn’t?
Race science is less a formal science and more a series of excuses for doing social murder and war crimes.
“Not white enough” would be my guess.
Can I be upset at all of them? The little mermaid should probably be
DutchDanish, and all the rest should be their canon ethnicities. White Disney princesses don’t bother me because most of those stories are European folktales, but that cuts both ways.Isn’t she a fucking mermaid who comes from the ocean? Why should she be any real nationality/ethnicity?
Her ethnicity should be Innsmouth.
Oddly enough, the Harry Potter franchise handled this well.
I could be convinced that mermaids should have dark backs and light bellies
Dutch not Danish?
Believe me, white folk do get offended about non-white characters being changed to white, in fact they the most likely ones to be offended, especially when it comes to historic figures. All this meme is doing is framing an inaccurate depiction of white folk to suit a biased narrative. Keep in mind also, a minority few cannot represent an entirety. Just as all black or asian folk are not alike, same holds true for white folk. This an era where a difference in race is not the concern, but rather the upper class rich people that use ethnic label stereotyping to have us fight among each other as distraction. Don’t fall for their trickery of dividing us.
The more I think about how we label race, the more I realize how arbitrary it all is. IIRC we used to consider Irish people as non-white at one point. That’s fucking bonkers
“White” isn’t a race nor is it a culture. That’s why the definition keeps changing over time. In Western society, white people are still the predominant and dominant demographic, which is why it’s still important to discuss issues of race and culture with members of those races and culture. “Not seeing race” isn’t a virtue, it’s sticking your head in the sand and pretending you’re enlightened.
That funny because when I put my non-USA definition of is white and not-white or african, this image as absolutely no meaning.
Do you mean your idea of white is more inclusive or less inclusive and where are you from?
And who qualifies as black or African where you’re from?
I would said it is different. Arabic people are not westerner but the ones from middle eat are definitely white. The character drawn doesn’t look Arabic whatsoever. I would have thought he is british. Romani are not fully white but definitely westerner, just not the vanilla-type. The Tibetan character is drawn as a white guy with high liner. The actress playing Ariel has definitely some African roots but I would called here mixed-race rather that black.
It just another kind of biais. I don’t pretend my way is better or closer to reality but it is funny that my biais clashes so much with OP’s.I think you are saying the cartoons are not accurate representations to begin with? I am from the US but not too familiar with the cartoons. I barely watched the original Mermaid when it came out on VHS because I was watching my younger cousins. the other ones I thought were Marvel characters. which also I don’t know.
Part of it is the character representation but part of it is also my own definition of what is white or what is westerner and what isn’t.
The live action character for the tibetain was badly casted if the race is important to the story. The romani girl went from a westerner folk with actual hair texture to some with flat hair. But I don’t see anything else weird, let alone chocking in this casting.
That’s because my own set of reference. I was not even able to tell that the first row was about native american people without reading the comments. That’s how little I know about them.
Fun fact about the Lone Ranger, the most likely real world basis for the protagonist is a man named Bass Reeves. He was black, and an escaped slave. The misrepresentation has been present since the beginning, if I’m not mistaken.
And I only learned about him in the first place because of Watchmen.
I feel like there’s a lot of cherry picking here too, because if we take the MCU, it also does some race swapping that nobody has a problem with.
Nick Fury is one, but Samuel L Jackson is so cool in that role, it doesn’t matter.
Heimdal is another one. Norse mythology, probably not a lot of black there, but Idris Elba is also so damn cool in the role that it does not really matter, and I’ve never heard anyone complain about these people.
I think in general it’s more about if the people in the roles do a good job or not. Tilda Swinton did a great job. Johnny Depp… Maybe not so much, but I also do remember people were mad about that one.
Valid point. Although I bet there would have been some outcry if they had cast anyone without red hair TBH. Some people are just obsessed with red hair.
But there would definitely have been less outrage if they casted a blond white lady instead of a black lady. Still relevant point.
Did anyone actually care about the casting?
I thought the movie was just bad.
So were native american, arab, romani people fine with those white actors in those roles?
This is an important point that should always be asked in this discourse. I mean the critique of casting is certainly valid and in this case the actual meme itself is more about pointing towards the actual racists, but still, being upset for a minority without listening to the actual minority isn’t really a good look either.
The reasoning behind the Tilda Swinton one has already been mentioned here, but for example in the Johnny Depp one they apparently even had a Comanche Nation adviser to make sure the representation was done well. That doesn’t necessarily make it okay, but why isn’t that ever even mentioned in this discourse? I would argue it’s still different to do stuff out of ignorance or malice, than just kinda fumble and make bad choices while trying to put in some effort.
That doesn’t necessarily make it okay, but why isn’t that ever even mentioned in this discourse?
Because white saviors need to be mad.
The problem is that it’s commercial driven. They want the big stars who just happen to be white. But then want to sell inclusivity for profit that lead to questionable creative decisions.
The rage is misdirected but not wrong. Representation is important but is being exploited by soulless corporate robots.
But one of the points is those big stars don’t just happen to be white. Throughout the years, a variety of conditions made it more likely that big stars would be white. Continuing to cast them for their star power instead of fitness for source, is pretty much the definition of “systemic racism”
Yeah the “happen to be” was meant to be slightly sarcastic. The only answer is to make conscious and smart decisions to be more inclusive and representative instead of profit motive. Unfortunately there seems a lot of pushback with hatewagons that will make producers more conservative.
I mean tbf, all of the above have people enraged and people who dgaf, it’s just those flip flop depending. I’m sure there’s no shortage of people here, in this very thread, that aren’t cool with say Native Americans being played by white people, or that Scarlet Johansen played that one lady from GITS (can’t remember her name, never really got into that series, but she’s supposed to be Asian.) Understandably so, really, but still.
I take it a step further personally, stop remaking anything and if you adapt say a comic or book, stick as close as humanly possible to the source material. Race/genderswapping and reboots for a moneygrab is cool or whatever but can we have good original stories again please?
