I read that half of Americans couldn’t cover an unexpected $1,000 expense. This sounds crazy to me. I understand that poverty exists, but the idea that an adult with a job doesn’t even have that amount saved up seems really strange.
What’s your relationship or philosophy with money? What do you credit for your financial success, or alternatively, what do you blame for your failures?
For the extra brave ones: how much savings do you have, and what are you planning to do with them?
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Went from living paycheck to paycheck to having a full $1k in my account right now after dumping my ex and moving out. I always thought that having two incomes combined would be better than just my own, but never realized how massive a drain my ex was compared to just taking care of myself.
That being said, I’m able to live cheaply because I use public transit, cook all my own meals, and I don’t eat that much. I think for most adults in the U.S., especially those who need a car for transit, the honest truth is that their wages just barely cover all their necessary living expenses.
every time I read one of those statistics, I feel the same way.
I’m doing very well relative to that statistic.
I live fairly simply, but I don’t consider myself particularly frugal.
I like traveling, learning, eating, watching and reading stuff, and making things, which are all pretty cheap interests.
If I were to credit anything with my financial success, it would be a practiced awareness of financial opportunity and persistently learning about and attempting every viable opportunity I’m interested in to gain a practical knowledge of cost-benefit streams.
I’ve tried many ways to make money and work less, and some of them worked out.
I’m traveling this year, so I save most of my income, and with the IRS’ FEIE I don’t pay income tax(up to 120k).
I have a few investments and some ten thousands accruing interest.
i don’t have immediate plans, but I want to buy some land at some point, basically so I have more area to build stuff and make stuff, sign up for cryonics and get a new electric bike or the Aptera if it every goes into production.
c’mon aptera.
It’s a difficult subject to discuss without sounding like you’re either bragging or talking down to those less well off.
I recently bought a new-to-me truck. I paid in cash, and if I wanted to, I could’ve bought two more. If I liquidated my investments, I could have bought three more, so six in total. I’m self-employed now, but I built all my wealth while working for a (plumbing) company where I was surrounded by people earning twice as much as I did. Yet, these are the people who need to finance their cars, have massive mortgages, and are always in a bad mood due to stress.
I understand that some people have been really unlucky and struggle to improve their financial position despite their best efforts, but these aren’t the people I’m talking about when I wonder how a working-age person can’t come up with a thousand bucks for an unexpected expense. I hardly even consider that a lot of money.
but I want to buy some land at some point, basically so I have more area to build stuff and make stuff.
I feel you there. What kind of things would you like to build? For me, it’s things like a rainwater harvesting system, solar/wind power, a pond with a pier and sauna, a chicken coop, a heated workshop with a car lift, a root cellar… I basically have an infinite list of projects I’d like to pursue.
“I basically have an infinite list of projects I’d like to pursue.”
this is about where I’m at.
All the homesteading stuff, I want to try breeding meat rabbits, I want to try geothermal air conditioning, buy used cars and flip them (I started working on cars a few years ago and ended up enjoying it much more than I thought I would).
a whole separate area for home brewing and jerkying stuff too, canning, all that.
I like the idea of building different types of housing and read books and watch videos all the time, like straw bale or clay or underground, whatever the heck experimental cabins I could build, and I’ve further toyed with the beginning of an idea of how to turn that into low income housing after I land on the simplest, sturdiest and least resource intensive houses to build.
carpentry. I’ve built small tables and desks and chairs for classrooms, but I’d like to experiment with larger furniture.
I did a lot of solar power experimentation when I was living in a motorhome that turned out Great, and I expect many of my projects outside would be solar and wind powered.
fish farming, vermicomposting, yeah, just a thousand billion things haha.
I like making things, building things, and new experiences.
I’ve done smaller projects within most of the fields I’ve mentioned as the opportunity arose, but even when I’m renting a house somewhere for a couple months I can’t easily conduct long-term larger living experiments, so I’ll have to get a house and land at some point so I can fiddle at scale.
…“always in a bad mood due to stress.”
circumstance and opportunity.
some people don’t have the opportunities, many do have the opportunities but don’t recognize them or choose not to take them because anything outside of what they already know makes them uncomfortable where is seen as difficult, and they haven’t been taught or learned themselves through experience to push past that discomfort or initial effort.
Yeah I love all that. Flipping old cars is something I’ve thought about as well but something I’d be even more interested in is doing the same with boats. Now that I’m self-employed I’ve tought about getting a project boat that I could work on when ever business is otherwise slow. I couldn’t fit a large one on my yard but some smaller fishing boat would be interesting to start with. When looking at old boats they often look like just even a simple pressure wash would double their price.
absolutely, That’s a great call with flipping boats also, I think the exact same thing about cars.
give a “clunker” a wash and change the battery and oil, clean some corrosion, and half the time you’re done with the tune-up and can make a few extra bucks.
I got my first motorcycle for my guy who basically did that for a living with bikes, and that was one of the first times practical commodity flipping made sense to me.
I had heard of flipping houses, but I didn’t hear about it, but then I saw like five bikes in this guy’s backyard and how simple it would be to replace the vital parts, which is fun, and sell them at a fair profit.
I keep trying to figure out how practical a solar /wind powered paddle houseboat would be, that I could just sort of like sustainably ferry out to wherever and paddle around the ocean for a while hahaha.
sounds super fun!
Maybe it helps to understand it when you think of it from the perspective that those $1000 expenses do happen, they’re not just hypothetical. But being able to cope with an event like that leaves you less able to handle a second one, and a third one
Couple that with the fact that I’m the US there is very little financial education so what might be an expected event for one person surprises another. Imagine living with a roommate and not realizing that to move into your own place involves coming up with first and last month rent, deposit, hook up fees, renters insurance, furniture, kitchen supplies, toiletries, etc… None of those should be unexpected, but also why would you expect them if you didn’t happen to run into them before?
Basically no amount of saving accounts for an expense that takes it all, and it’s then followed up by another one right after. And for some people those events are small and happen so quickly you never catch up and now you have late fees and interest and stress.
I have enough in my emergency fund that if I lost my job I’d be ok for about a year.
I’m nearly to my goal, after that I’m going to change my focus to expanding my portfolio.
Still no way I can buy a house though. Need to make about 3x more money for that to happen.
I credit it to having a property owner that’s kept rent cheap and having low overhead, and being frugal borderline cheap.
Live below my means, invest the rest.
I don’t dress or act like people in my pay range. My house is small and in a quiet neighborhood and cost less than my salary. Car is older but paid off and I know all the quirks and have the toolbox in the back to fix it. It is probably one of the top 5 most reliable cars in history. My work dress shoes are 10 years old and my around the house shoes were new in 2019.
I spend my money where I spend my time. So I have a nice phone, a very nice monitor and mechanical keyboard, and a good computer. And all with the right to repair philosophy. Same for my wife and kids. And also good running shoes, good exercise equipment.
The plan is to get to a point where I can just not work at all and maintain my lifestyle. Three percent rule and all that. And also help launch my kids.
Something about a 25 year roof and a Japanese shit box car in my fortress of solitude.
FWIW I grew up really really really poor like you wouldn’t believe so I’m okay with this.
All of this is great except the shoes, get some new/better shoes it’s worth it, your body will thank you later.
So I have a nice phone, a very nice monitor and mechanical keyboard, and a good computer. And all with the right to repair philosophy. Same for my wife and kids.
Jeez man, I’m happy for you, but most of us are stuck with stock model bullshit that broke in 2016. Go brag about your consumer friendly right-to-repair family in c/BuyItForLife.
(I kid, of course 😊 Solid approach you have there, smart and sustainable)
Yeah, thanks. Between ThinkPads and system76 and Fairphone, it’s pretty easy to maintain. Monitor is a Dell U3014. It was over a thousand dollars new but these days it’s under $200 used and I’ve replaced the mainboard in it twice for about $145 each time. Everything was purchased slightly used so that saves a lot.
top 5 most reliable cars in history.
i’m listening. is it an old corolla?
Camry
This is essentially my situation too. I spend quite a bit of money on these small purchases for hobbies. But I’m easily clearing a couple hundred a month to buy stocks, save, do something really stupid, et cetera.
What’s your relationship or philosophy with money?
A life-changing shift to my approach has been to worry about absolute amounts rather than percentages. Saving $10 on a $20 item feels great but ultimately is the same thing as saving $10 on a $500 item (which feels like nothing).
I grew up lower middle class: never had to worry about not having a roof over my head, but there were times we were somewhat food insecure, and spending money on leisure/entertainment or anything unnecessary for survival was a foreign concept until I got to high school and some my parents’ career moves paid off and put us in upper middle class. It took them a good 10+ years before they could relax a little bit and feel secure with their money, though, and that was as much driven by the fact that their kids were adults who had moved out.
So life has been about deciding which of my parents’ frugal attitudes and approaches to money to keep and which to discard.
Things I decided not to adopt:
- I slowly learned to stop caring as much about wasted food. Food is just cheaper now compared to when I was growing up (even if the last 5 years has shown an uptick), and as a society we have more issues with obesity than hunger, so cleaning off a plate seems like it doesn’t actually do that much good.
- My time is worth something to me. I will gladly pay the few dollars here and there for convenience.
- I’m glad I ignored my parents advice to buy a home as soon as I could and build equity or whatever. I rented and it worked out great for me, giving me the flexibility to make changes at different stages of my life.
Things I kept:
- Life is uncertain. Always be prepared with whatever you can accumulate for financial resilience: cash, other property, lines of credit, marketable job skills, literal insurance policies, etc. Don’t underestimate the importance of personal relationships, whether it’s “credit” from friends and family who can help you out of a bind, colleagues who can refer work to you, bosses who will fight for your career, etc.
- Develop your career. Education and credentials are important early on, and up-to-date skills and a good understanding of the landscape in your field (both in the type of job and the type of industry you work in), plus solid relationships with people, can help you know when switching jobs is right for you.
Things I had to learn on my own:
- Life is unfair. Many types of unfairness are systematic. So why not position yourself to where the unfairness works in your favor, if available?
- Higher income makes it easier to survive mistakes on the spending side. To flip around Ben Franklin’s quote, a penny earned is a penny saved.
- Know yourself and your own laziness. Set up automatic functions wherever possible: automatic bill pay, automatic savings, automatic investments, etc. Steer away from any strategy that requires active management, and towards strategies that tend towards a set it and forget it philosophy.
I’ve also made a shitload of mistakes, some of them pretty costly, especially back in my 20’s:
- Paid probably thousands in credit card interest in my early 20’s chasing lifestyle bullshit.
- Paid thousands in unnecessary car loan interest in my mid 20’s by getting suckered by a dealer.
- Paid hundreds, maybe thousands, in late fees and interest from forgetting deadlines to pay shit I actually already had the money on hand for.
I’m rich now, most of it from luck (especially timing), much of it from personal relationships (good family, good marriage, good friends), some of it from actual effort (good grades from a good law school), and some of it from conscious decisions to steer towards my strengths and away from my weaknesses (lazy but smart, prototypical “gifted” slacker with undiagnosed ADHD).
It took a while to get here, though, and I was financially insecure well into my 30’s. Sorta figured shit out then, and then married someone who complements me pretty well on these things, and covers my blind spots.
For the extra brave ones: how much savings do you have, and what are you planning to do with them?
I have some savings, and it’s an emergency fund. It’s representing 1-2 months of typical spending, that could be stretched to 3-4 months if I needed to stop the frivolous spending. But I have credit beyond that, and less liquid assets I’d be able to tap into if I were facing a longer term issue.
But I’m not saving for any particular thing other than retirement. If things accumulate and grow, great. I’ll make a judgment call on when to retire based on how I feel and how much I have and what I want to do. I anticipate my wife and I will probably want to retire in our early 60’s, based on our anticipated career trajectories and the ages of our children.
Really interesting read. Thanks for the response.
Why do you only have a few months’ worth of savings despite considering yourself rich? Or are you just speaking about cash reserves?
Or are you just speaking about cash reserves?
Yes. Cash reserves are like unused RAM to me: I have it, so I might as well put it to work. If it turns out I need it somewhere else, I can always go rearrange things to make that possible.
Realistically, I think I’m rich because my wife and I both have strong ability to command high salaries, switch jobs, etc., even in a pretty severe downturn. The main things that might tank the value of that expected future cash flow are disability or death, and we at least insure against those.
We also only need one of our two incomes to support our lifestyle, so we have a certain resilience that just comes from having that buffer. At our current ages, we also already have substantial retirement savings, so we have some resilience there, too.
Since I left college and started out into the “adult world”, I’ve always spent less than I made, the rest going to savings or investments toward retirement. I accomplish this by “paying myself first”. If I have already saved the money as my first priority, I can’t spend it on things like rent or groceries. So my financial choices are forced to be more conservative by design.
Example: I forget what the max limit to IRAs were at the time (say $5k/yr) but for my first job I set up auto contributions each month and mentally took a $5k/yr salary “cut” for that job. Every time I got a raise, I made sure that at least a portion of that raise went to increasing my savings rate and attempted to avoid lifestyle creep.
Thanks to my savings, I’ve been able to handle some emergencies in cash vs having to utilize debt to cover the expenses. It really is a snowball. I started out small, now my savings is significant compared to my income.
I attribute a lot of my “pay yourself first” approach to reading The Automatic Millionaire, Expanded and Updated: A Powerful One-Step Plan to Live and Finish Rich early on.
I have $15.
Not just that I can spend. Not “until sometime in the future.” Just $15.
I’m digging myself out of a $13k credit card debt hole. I burned through my savings when a job that I had ended on my unexpectedly, and because it was contract work I wouldn’t qualify for benefits. They kept me around as a sub, promising me a full time position if I just stuck around long enough and I was foolish enough to believe them.
I’m self employed now and making do with the best I can, but I’m planning on ending my dream as a musician/ teacher and moving home. I don’t know who would want my skills, but I know they are specialized and strong. I just gotta see what kind of work would value them.
I’ve got $0.85 in savings, because I put my rent and car payment money in my savings account each month until I need to pay those bills. I did at one point have $1000 saved up as a rainy day fun, but then it rained for a whole year (financially speaking). Now I don’t even have credit cards to fall back on, as those have been maxed out and gone to collections. I’m looking for a job in an industry I left because it was driving me to alcoholism (software), but that job market sucks a little more than the service industry, so I’m not optimistic.
Oh yeah and I’d be homeless if I didn’t have family who were willing and able to loan me rent money.
I currently work on software in automotive. Everything seems completely insane. We have tons of process and technical debt, executives that are super out of touch and all have their own pet projects, we have hundreds of executives so we have 100 number one priority pet projects, we have a very distributed hardware/software footprint due to the affirmationed process/technical debt, each vehicle has a different hardware footprint which means we constantly have to make our distributed software work when a piece of the software needs to be rebuilt in a new controller, etc etc.
There’s also the whole mess of trying to run agile at scale, managinga very distributed backlog, trying to balance priorities across teams that have to coordinate work, everyone leading with “how they want it” instead of “what they want”, total disregard for WIP limits, etc.
I know where I work is a shit show. I really wonder if it’s much better elsewhere. I also wonder if this place has always been a shit show and I just have more exposure to it now.
And yeah, alcohol. I’m trying to cut back but the mood here seems to violently oscillate between “this is OK” to “what the hell” and back again. We’re probably due for another swing soon.
Some days I do think about going back to waiting tables. It took me years of working elsewhere to stop having the waiting weeds dreams though…
I’m doing well at the moment. The problem is that no matter how well I do, eventually something destroys my savings and eventually there’s a layoff at my company.
Even if I’m doing well at the moment, I’m still a couple paychecks from not doing well, and am no where near on track to eventually be able to retire
I have five digits of savings for the first time since my kids were born, but I also have college expenses for them, and at least that much in deferred house maintenance
I credit Apple, of all things. I always chose credit cards to minimize interest and fees, so this is the first time I’ve had one with significant cash back. Now I pay essentially everything with Apple credit card, pay off at the end of the month, get a surprising amount of cash back, directly into the high yield savings account. While of course my job is the reason I’m doing well, I credit this for turning things around to actually let me put money aside, to boost my savings
I am one broken leg away from being homeless and losing everything, and it’s been like that my entire working life. I’ve never been able to make enough to actually save. Currently I have -100 in the bank and some debt I’m trying to pay off on top of that. My rent is literally half my income.
All my jobs have been paycheck-to-paycheck until about 3 years ago. My last job allowed me to save up $24k, but then I lost my job. Now I’m down to $7k and getting worried.
Im doing well. Started off in my mid twenties reading books on finance and investing. Lived in a drug house where I rented out a room and had a dead end job. Got an education, decent job, and invested aggressively for the next 20 years. Im planning on retiring in my mid 50’s if everything goes to plan. 🤞
I dislike money. I worked hard to have enough that it’s not on my mind. I don’t need to think about the cost of eating out or buying food, or pursuing hobbies. But I also don’t really spend much. I don’t make big purchases very often and when I do I still over-analyze them.
If I had a lot more money I could retire, but I still have half my life to live. I hope to retire in 16 years. I have a job that pays well, with good job security, and minimal stress. I get 38 hours of leave time per month and I live in California.
I have cash savings earning enough per month in interest to pay my cell phone and home internet bills entirely. But I don’t really have any other discretionary monthly subscriptions. My savings will probably be used on a new kitchen and bathroom eventually.
