IDF: Whoops, tee hee.
I mean, not every individual has a pager on them necessarily. Not that it’s excused either way
Way to completely miss the point. Nobody is suggesting they use pagers in Gaza.
I’d argue the pager explosions were just a different form factor of carpet bombing
Well they’re still blowing up kids with these things so idk if it’s the most brilliant targeting technique
When your goal is genocide, a kill is a kill
Compared to dumping white phosphorus over hospitals and refugee camps, killing 2 (?) children during an attack that targeted hundreds/thousands is many orders of magnitude more precise. I hate dead innocents as much as anyone, but you gotta admit the pagers were effective and included way less collateral damage than the methods Isreal has employed in recent history.
The point of the post isn’t to praise the pagers attack. It’s to point out that Isreal is capable of causing less collateral damage in Gaza but chooses not to.
Fucking weird comment.
but you gotta admit the pagers were effective and included way less collateral damage than the methods Isreal has employed in recent history.
Yeah. No I don’t.
you do not, under any circumstances, “gotta hand it to them”
but you gotta admit the pagers were effective and included way less collateral damage than the methods Isreal has employed in recent history.
Do you admit that mass gas chambers are an effective way to kill people ?
…are you implying that mass gas chambers aren’t an effective way to kill people?
So much nuance, wow
Yes. A very large part of what made the holocaust so terrible was that it was very effective at killing people.
If my goal was to kill exclusively enemy combatants and leave all civilians alone, it would be pretty effective to round them up and gas them, yes. I’d rather do that than indiscriminate fire.
Combatants tend to violently fight back, when you try to round them up. They also tend to hide among civilians in case of terrorist militia like Hezbollah.
It’s an Obama type technique. Sure, you might blow up a few innocents, but the rate of eliminated enemies vs killed innocents is better than in traditional warfare, so a numbers guy would always go for that one.
Its accepting Israeli propaganda to say that this was a precision strike. This is like using cluster munitions.
Whenever Israel comes up with an idea for an assassination they do it because they can. Its a force of habit for them.
kill individual fighters
They killed like 1 fighter in exchange for wounding a thousand civilians, including at least one little girl who died. The pager shit is every bit as indiscriminate as the bombing.
No, it’s not. This was a very tactical way of striking an enemy that hides behind women and children.
So would Netanyahu also be considered as hiding behind women and children? He’s out in public, traveling and lives in Tel Aviv.
This was a very tactical
Flinging a hand grenade into a crowd several thousand times over
But it’s okay because the crowd was full of Arabs aka Terrorists
There’s a big difference between dropping bombs and small pagers exploding. I watched a lot of those videos, and almost no one except the targets were injured.
It’s really sad that anyone else got injured at all, but damn, I’m glad they were able to be so destructive without injuring the thousands upon thousands that have been dying up until now. Or are you just upset that you can’t claim genocide for this attack?
There’s a big difference between dropping bombs and small pagers exploding.
Israel is doing both across Southern Lebanon. The pager attack was just the first salvo.
i think they killed like, 12 people, and injured somewhere between 1-2 thousand more, probably some civilians in there, but these are military pagers to my knowledge so it’d be weird for it to hurt a bunch of random people, but it’s possible.
if you include the radio attack i think it’s like another 40 dead, and like 500 injured? Don’t quote me on it.
these are military pagers
They were a shipment for general consumption that went to a dealer near the Iranian embassy.
The target was the Iranian ambassador to Lebanon, and virtually everyone else was just collateral damage.
They were a shipment for general consumption that went to a dealer near the Iranian embassy.
yeah, that’s generally how products work. Even in the US military the government just walks up to a company and goes "can you make this? And if they say yes they pay them money, or times of war just go “hey i need you to make this”
the only difference here is that it’s not quite a formally established military, so it’s using off the shelf components and products, which is pretty common for these smaller groups.
although depending on the dealer, that dealer may have been the source of intrusion, so there’s that.
The target was the Iranian ambassador to Lebanon, and virtually everyone else was just collateral damage.
targeting one specific guy through the most broad means possible seems, weird. I doubt this was a highly specific attack. It would be a very, very odd way to do it, but then again this conflict has been nothing but odd, so i can’t really put it past them lol.
Regardless, i doubt they solely intended to target that one guy. While everyone else is technically collateral, it’s probably considered to be beneficial to the cause. At least by israel.
targeting one specific guy through the most broad means possible seems, weird.
Not that weird, in the history of espionage. As another example, the CIA used a vaccine drive in Pakistan to target Osama bin Laden’s hideout.
Regardless, i doubt they solely intended to target that one guy.
When your government believes neighboring ethnicities are “bug people” who need to be exterminated, collateral damage is viewed as a perk.
Not that weird, in the history of espionage. As another example, the CIA used a vaccine drive in Pakistan to target Osama bin Laden’s hideout.
“The program was ultimately unsuccessful. It led to the arrest of a participating physician, Shakil Afridi, and was widely ridiculed as undermining public health.”
hmm. Also it seems this was to check DNA from blood samples. So not really a good comparison here.
When your government believes neighboring ethnicities are “bug people” who need to be exterminated, collateral damage is viewed as a perk.
i mean that’s a potential reason, but these are also pagers meant for military communications purposes right? Why wouldn’t you want to target military personnel if you’re already gunning for one person. Besides these are probably more dangerous left unexploded than what currently happened. Imagine what would happen in 20 years when these make their way onto the second hand markets. You could very well accidentally kill innocent people then. You can still do it now, but since they’ve presumably all been deactivated, it’s probably not a huge concern.
There are definitely concerns over war crimes and shit, but unfortunately i’m not the ICC or ICJ so i can’t comment on that with authority.
Hezbollah was using commercial grade pagers because they’re a militia. The purpose of pagers are to contact them when their off duty. Many of these pagers blew up in homes, grocery stores, and other public places. Many civilians were killed and most people injured were bystanders.
from what i can recall, and from the stats i’ve seen, these “explosions” seem more like “really bad pocket fires” more than anything to me, i could see it injuring people. Maybe two or three standing immediately nearby other people.
But considering this attack has only like 12 confirmed dead civilians or something, “many” seems a little excessive. I could see a few hundred getting injured though. Possibly a few cars/homes burning down. That might cause a few more.
ok so, did a bit of a check here, 12 civilians died. That’s where that number came from. 40 people died total, i think. At least that’s what wikipedia tells me. I don’t think it ever mentions how many civilians were injured directly, but assuming it follows the deaths, it’s somewhere between probably 500 and 1000 i would guess.
This says 37 dead, of whom Hezbollah have stated 31 were their fighters.
That’s a pretty clean ratio actually, considering the nature of Hesbollah.
Yeah. Two civilians dead for every one militant is fairly typical for asymmetric warfare.
Where are you getting those numbers?
Vague memory, but on looking it up, it’s even worse
I’m sure that’s true in general, but given the pagers and radios were being either held or worn by the target, I’d say this attack would have been much better.
Hezbollah is a political party with 18 parliamentary seats and thousands of public service workers on their payroll.
Saying these were “fighters” is akin to bombing an UNRWA center and claiming you killed 31 Hamas Terrorists.
so then why did they have pagers? I thought the pagers were specifically for millitant orders, or is the whole political party communicating in private via one way pagers?
i feel like if this were public service, this would be in confidence, in a building for example, rather than like this.
so then why did they have pagers?
To receive messages through an underdeveloped telecommunications infrastructure.
i feel like if this were public service, this would be in confidence
Well, if you feel that way, I guess the mass murder was fine.
To receive messages through an underdeveloped telecommunications infrastructure.
obviously. It seems more akin to hamas than like, the green party in the US for example though. I wouldn’t be surprised if the primary purpose of the pagers was for military communications. I would expect any sort of political meetings to be done through a scheduled period, i could see notifications going out for these things. But that’s about it.
also, from what i’ve heard, they had phones previously, and recently got rid of them for the usage of these pagers, since the phones were probably bugged, with israeli intelligence anyway.
Well, if you feel that way, I guess the mass murder was fine.
also i’m not sure this semantically counts as a “mass murder” usually those are done directly by an individual, on a group of people immediately in front of them. Maybe it could apply to this, but that seems like a stretch, especially considering this killed like 50 people total, which is a lot, but considering the amount of injuries and spicy pagers, that’s not very effective.
Would the US pullout of afghan that killed like 13 members of the military also count as mass murder? That’s more than a few, and probably more collective than this event.
It’s underdeveloped because a terrorist organization fought a war to control the telecommunications system so they could leverage it more effectively for more terrorism.
1000 civilians had pagers sold to Hezbollah? Odd.
Hezbollah isn’t just a military organization. It’s a political party. The majority of those pagers were in civilian hands when they detonated.
There is no accident.
It took them years to prepare that operation. It was against Hezbollah, not Hamas, because they saw them as the bigger threat.
The war in Gazah is barbaric, but the sensible immediate alternative would have been a very targeted operation to find and rescue the hostages, not something like this.
Hamas != Hisbollah
But I start to wonder if they Knew about the planed attacks and let them happen to start this massacre.
It feels like the all seeing eye of Mossad was ignored on purpose. I hope Netanjahus Name will be branded for ever. He deserves no good mention in History of humanity.
On the other side… humanity faces the biggest historic event ever and no one cares (climate change)
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Hamas != Hisbollah
And they also don’t use pagers, or cell phones, or…?
I think you imply the wrong thing here. of course they probably do, but what is the core of your statement?
Mine was:
Netanjahu (Not all of Israel and definitely not all Jews) wants this genocide. He needs it for his own survival, to a point where he gladly accepted the rape-murder of Festival crowd… not any festival, a Hippie-Goa-Festival full of people who would never vote conservative, so a scapegoat the conservatives gladly gave.
Conservatives globally are such a vomit inducing Subgenre of human scum. Hamas and Hisbollah ARE conservatives too… the liberal-green-peace-people have no representation in this world filled with hatred. Quite the opposite, they are vilified and killed.
Ah I see now, I misread what you were trying to communicate.
Sry. I try me best. =∆
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Room had too be made. Same as what’s happening in the West Bank right now. The Lebenon isn’t an expansion target.
None of this should be a surprise to anyone.
Yeah they cant just carpet bomb lebanon that would be too far for even the US.
Yeah I’m sure, the US would never let that slide, just like in Laos, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.
Nothing in the world or in the US has changed since 1972.
GOOD point.
Nah a lot of things have changed, it’s just that the US hasn’t, sadly.
Unless Afghanistan and Iraq was in 1970 or singlehandedly funding a genocide as we speak doesn’t count.
Us gonna provide logistical support my man… Mark my words
To be fair, Mossad != IDF.
Correct IDF kills Palestinians as their core job, similar to Waffen SS and their war crimes.
Mossad kills people outside of Palestine to let normies know Israel is dangerous.
Hamas doesn’t use pagers, they use tunnels
Wtf is that mean. Tunnels aren’t communication devices. Also Hezbollah famously has vast tunnel networks under southern Lebanon.
Wtf is that mean.
It means you have to actually go to the tunnels and fight, like the IDF is doing.
Lol that’s not what they’re doing.
It literally is
Oh I didn’t realize you go “into” tunnels by indiscriminately bombing the things above them.
You learn something new every day.
Sometimes you bomb them so you don’t have to, or to block a means of egress. Either way it’s a legitimate military objective that justifies civilian casualties.
People could just leave the area, though. It’s not like Israel doesn’t tell them about the strike.
justifies civilian casualties.
The entire goal of hasbara is this.
Ah yes, I love going into tunnels by bombing hospitals and orphanages full of civilians, it’s my favorite method. Also, are you suggesting that hamas doesn’t use communication technology?
Why is a military tunnel under a hospital? (I don’t believe that Gaza had a single orphanage.)
First of all, I’m pretty sure it was proven not to be, but you can fact check me on that. Second, if it were there, it likely wasn’t intentional. Third, they could have bombed the tunnel without hitting the hospital, because it wouldn’t have only been under the hospital. Fourth, and again you can fact check me in this, but it would be pretty strange for a large city to have no orphanages.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/12/world/middleeast/gaza-tunnel-israel-hamas.html
Second, if it were there, it likely wasn’t intentional.
It connects to, and opens into, a hospital referred to by the New York Times in 2008 as “the de facto headquarters of Hamas.” So clearly pretty intentional.
Third, they could have bombed the tunnel without hitting the hospital
They did bomb the tunnel without hitting the hospital.
Fourth, and again you can fact check me in this, but it would be pretty strange for a large city to have no orphanages.
There are zero orphanages in any American city, for instance. Not strange at all. Orphanages are kind of an archaic and disused way to handle the case of orphaned children - modern societies use a foster system, instead. Gazans simply don’t care so they make no provision at all if the family doesn’t step up, so they don’t run orphanages either.
2008 you say.
So… 17 years ago?
Crazy, it’s almost like plans improved with time. That’s never been the case ever in history.
This plan has been in motion for over 1.5 years given that is when the shell company was set up. So by your logic, their “plans” should be much improved by now, no?
Almost as if your comment makes no sense in this context.
If your plan is ‘fuck dem civis’ you need another plan
