And the thing is, unlike someone’s sexual orientation, which they are born with, someone’s religious beliefs are actually a choice. A lifestyle, if you so will. They’re not something you’re born with, but something you’re taught.
If no kids were indoctrinated into religion, there would be significantly less religious people, I can dream.
The majority of people need to be taught religion when their kids to believe in it before they develop their critical thinking skills, once you’re an adult and have critical thinking skills it takes a much more unintelligent or wishful thinking person to invest in the idea of religion.
I like the thought exercise of; consider you as you are now never heard of religion/higher powers/all the gods. Now picture yourself being spoken to by a pastor of the lord Jesus christ. You’d think this guy is absolutely batshit and shouldn’t be out walking around. Certainly at the very least not be allowed to indoctrin more to their causw within a tax free building paid for largely by taxes.
Indoctrination is a thing, and it is extremely damaging. Both while inside, and also once free. They (the parents) will build their (the child) lives around X people, doing X things, not Y things, and if you do Y things you’re no longer X.
I’m from Utah. The number of friends I’ve had who were ‘excommunicated’ from their friends, families and lives is huge.
I do agree with you for the most part, I just think it’s something to understand.
You’re desperately giving them the victim seeking mentality they crave
This post doesn’t have a date on it because it’s from like 2010. They’ve moved on to saying the same things about trans people.
“I’ll gay for you.” 🙏
This is all funny until you do it. Trying this kind of shit in 2009 as I was starting to fully transition got me a full swing baseball bat to my hip. I laid there for maybe 30 mins before I could crawl to a phone.
From a safety standpoint, please don’t do this. Just flip them off as you walk away and then vote as if your life depends on it, because it just may.
This is why everyone who isn’t a cis hetero white Christian man absolutely needs to buy a gun and learn how to use it. It’s your job to defend yourself. (Don’t get me wrong, allies are great, and people should be helping each other against the bigots, but end of the day, you’re alone, gotta defend yourself)
Edit: also, I’m really sorry that happened, not trying to blame the victim, just advocating for people taking their power back
Did you sue them?
No. Hard to do when there was no way to identify them. I mouthed off at a gas station, and before I could react, a dude jumped out of a truck and assaulted me.
Fun! How pious of them.
Surely the gas station had cameras?
We then know that they were white, were wearing clothing and the police says there were very fine people on both sides of this altercation.
But God forbid you try to drive of without paying. Then: believe it or not, straight to jail.
Fucking me sideways, I am so sorry you went though that.
I’m sorry that happened to you but I appreciate you warning people of the dangers of being confrontational with these people.
It’s not worth it. You won’t change their mind, people nearby aren’t going to clap for you, you’re just unnecessarily putting yourself in harms way because many of these people are not kind, they will respond aggressively.
i dont think you will be able to vote away religious fundamentalism.
maybe bring a bat next time you are feeling cheeky, just in case.
I just don’t understand why they feel they have to flaunt their religion. Like, we get it, you worship a zombie-corpse God and you really, really dont understand the concept of eternity but you don’t have to make it your whole personality.
Xians are so friendly especially the part where they believe that I am going to suffer for eternity in a lake of fire.
Feel the love.
As a Christian, I don’t believe the Bible because I agree with it and like it. I believe in it because I’m convinced it’s true. Kinda sounds like to me “pro vaccine are so hateful! Saying if I don’t take the vaccine I’ll get sick and die!”
Genuine question. What convinces you that Bible is true? And among Abrahamic religions, why is this particular book true? Why do you accept “update” to Torah (that is, the Christian Bible), but not “update” to the Christian Bible (Quran)? Or do I miss the point?
Glad you asked! I’ll start with the Torah. One of the central purposes of Judaism was and is waiting for the Messiah. It even makes its way into modern day Judaism. The likes of Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 are clearly about Jesus of Nazareth. The records we have about Jesus consistently show to Him being perfect, doing miracles, being a good teacher, claiming to be the messiah and even God, and then He was crucified in the most humiliating way, died, and was buried. But on the third day He rose again from the dead and was seen by quite a few, who were so convinced they ended up entering a world of persecution and difficulty, many died. Because they refused to renounce that they had seen Him risen.
As historical records go- the Bible is pretty comprehensive for records of its time. Most other people we know about have their records dating to hundreds of years after their existence. Jesus’ records were written within the lifetime of people who would have known Him. And they’re pretty consistent, unlike legends which rapidly evolve with time. The Bible has been pretty much the same. Give or take some less important passages, though.
Now, there are a load of problems with Islam and the Qur’an, but I’ll keep it concise to how the Qur’an disproves itself. The Qur’an makes these points: The Gospel is the word of allah: 3:3-4 No one can change allah’s words: 18:27 Strongly implies that the Christians had the Gospel when the Qur’an was written: 7:157 Christians should judge by the Gospel: 5:47
The Qur’an also denies the death of Jesus and His divinity, which the Bible claims. So it’s in obvious contradiction. So judging by the Gospel, Islam is false. And the Gospel cannot be corrupted as the Qur’an recommends the Gospel and claims allah’s words cannot be corrupted.
Paul also gives us this warning: Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Considering the Qur’an apparently was revealed to Mohammed by an “angel”… Yeah…
The Islamic dilemma explained in a YouTube video
I hope this makes sense
Also possible that a good dude who preached love and kindness went into a coma when the tyrants put him on a cross, and then woke up a few days later, with no involvement whatsoever from the creator.
So you’re suggesting a guy who was ruthlessly beaten and crucified , then stabbed in the side revealing that his lung had collapsed, simply recovered after two nights in a tomb and pushed a boulder out of the way, without the armed guards noticing? And who were the dudes just chilling there? And how do you explain the ascension into heaven?
It is possible, but I’m not buying it
That’s fair, and you’re entitled to believe what you like.
My faith tells me that the possible (though unlikely) set of events must be true, as the alternative is impossible and just as unlikely.
Interesting - will read more about that Quran contradiction. Thanks!
Also, to clarify, the reason you believe that Bible holds actual historical value is that, unlike legends and stories, it is more or less consistent?
Pretty much. Also, we tend to accept facts like “Julius Caesar was born in Subaru” when our only source is some guy said that 200 years after he was born. So in terms of Historical records, the New Testament is actually pretty contemporary, being written mere decades after Jesus existed. My faith primarily hinges on Jesus’ and the New Testament
So ain’t that the reason to doubt that Caesar was born in Subaru and seek more evidence, as opposed to believe the New Testament? Also, given the supernatural claims about Jesus, shouldn’t it be supplied with extraordinary evidence?
We know for sure that Caesar did exist and was the Roman dictator, for example. We also have contemporary sources on his life - accounts of Cicero, for example, or Sallust.
Can we say for sure that Jesus did exist, and, especially important, has actually created any miracles?
And also, what about evidence for the existence of Buddha, for example? Did he never exist or he never attained nirvana, or he falsely believed he switched to some supernatural state while this was all mental? Or did it all exist in parralel?
One of these things is not like the other…
They proselytize because of a prophecy, that has already been fulfilled. The prophecy said that once there were Christians world wide, Christ would return. Since they don’t recognize the guy that fit the bill, they assume that prophecy hasn’t been fulfilled, and they need more Christians everywhere.
It basically caused the 7th Day Adventists, and The Jehovah’s Witnesses to be founded. Funny thing was they got the year right, and then completely missed everything else.
Wait who’s the guy who fit the bill???
The Báb and Baha’u’llah were born directly descended from David, and declared their missions in 1844 and 1863 respectively, having never actually met each other, but The Báb specifically named Baha’u’llah as his successor just before taking three regiments worth of lead to the face, for the second time that month.
Fed up of all their “holy days” every year. When is it unholy day?
Every day because we’re all sinful
Some other phrases you can throw at them for greater impact:
- God will send you to hell for doing that
- Jesus would never approve of you
- You lack God in your life
- You’re blindly following Satan’s lies
Remember when he flipped all those tables because people where trading in church. Then the church went ahead and did trading in church, sure he’d love all those private jets and cars.
It seems people can join and quit religion. I’m thinking it’s more a choice than biological or sexual preference (which aren’t choices at all).
Also have you noticed how religion grooms children? Most of those weirdos go after new born babies.
They also go after the elderly and And dead people!
Like when the LDS church were posthumously baptising Holocaust victims.
What I’m trying to say is they got some real fetishes.
Winner winner chicken dinner
Thank you so much for posting this, I needed that levity right now.
I don’t know what happened to me, just suddenly realized that christians are totally nuts and they should not be allowed in any position of power.
Have faith, no problems there, believing in an existing book as a source of all truths is a bit much, forcing any part of it on anyone else (including their own children) is despicable and should be stopped.
Ya I walk my dog past a church and every Sunday when I see the crowd of people there I can’t help but view them as a group of weird cultists, even though it’s pretty vanilla Christianity.
And that is how you end a joke.
Yus
You’re going to hell, repent sinner!
You’re going to hell, repent sinner!
Not sure whether you’re
- inventing a new kind of sinner,
- maybe misspelling ‘recent’,
- really wanting to say “You’re going to hell. Repent, sinner!” in English.
You’re going to hell. Repent, sinner!
Better?
Eat shoots and leaves.
Ah crap. Forgot the internet is super cereal
Oh, cool, see you there…
I know this is probably going to get downvoted, but I’m getting tired of people using “evangelical Christian” as the term for the problematic flavor of Christians. If you look up what evangelical Christian means, it’s just that there’s an emphasis on the authority of the Bible, sharing of faith, and personal salvation. Maybe it’s the sharing of faith that seems problematic*, but by context, I think you’re more referring to political conservative Christians.
*If that is the case, I hope it’s just when it’s done in an aggressive/tactless/heavy-handed way. I’d like to think we haven’t reached the point as a society where someone sharing their faith respectfully is seen as problematic.
I read the Bible as a child, because I believed what l was taught.
Now, Jesus is my one and only role model - Jesus sacrificed his life to spread a message that is only more valid 2k years later
Jesus was the shit. He’s my only hero - everyone else I’ve ever looked up to let me down… Jesus died so he would never be the villain.
He never needed to be magic - he was just in harmony with the creator. Be was in harmony with existence lol. His every appearance was to deliver a message
His message was bastardized. Read the new testament - without the assumption of magic. Read it for yourself - as a child, I got through it all on the toilet. - and I read it cover to cover, you can read the new testament in few hours
there’s an emphasis on the authority of the Bible
yeah that’s the problem, particularly when you try to apply it to governance.
Which is a fool’s errand, as the whole reason for Jesus (or at least a big part of it) is that you can’t save people through laws. Nobody can live up to those standards, so everyone would be a criminal.
doesn’t stop people from doing it though.
The problem is the sharing. If they only did it when asked no problem. But they don’t. They leave shitty tip notes and letters on your door if not outright invoke you to talk with them by knocking randomly. They try to change the laws for everyone to conform to their own personal “salvation” and impose that on us all. They stand outside clinics and shame people trying not to die. If they kept it personal no one would care. But they don’t.
There’s two others that nearly died from evangelicals trying to over share. Stop this and no one would give a fuck. Until then: in for a penny in for a pound.
evangelical Christian" as the term for the problematic flavor of Christians.
If you look up what evangelical Christian means, it’s just that there’s an emphasis on the authority of the Bible
sharing of faith, and personal salvation
Whether people WANT to share your personal superstitions or not. That’s why evangelical Christians are worse: they evangelize to those of us who have made it clear that we don’t consent and, which is much worse, pass laws based on the assumption that everyone must believe in their favorite fairy tales.
Maybe it’s the sharing of faith that seems problematic
Congratulations on getting the point! If only you hadn’t immediately dismissed it again, there might have been hope for you yet.
If that is the case, I hope it’s just when it’s done in an aggressive/tactless/heavy-handed way. I’d like to think we haven’t reached the point as a society where someone sharing their faith respectfully is seen as problematic
What you don’t seem to understand is that telling people who have not asked about your weird relationship to your invisible friend is an INHERENTLY aggressive, tactless and heavy-handed way to attempt to convert people. Don’t make me trot out the penis example…
I think you’re more referring to political conservative Christians
Because believing that the Bible should continue to have authority over modern society IS a conservative view that’s very political in nature.
There’s a difference between sharing your faith and making it illegal to not follow its rules. That’s what I was trying to emphasize.
I fit the definition of evangelical Christian, though I generally don’t use that label. I believe the God is the ultimate authority, and by extension, the Bible is the ultimate authority over Christians. That does not mean I believe in forcing people to follow its rules or punishing them if they don’t. A lot of the laws simply don’t work or make sense if you don’t have faith, and the Bible makes it clear that you need a change of heart to follow the laws, not vice versa. That’s why I’m not voting for or supporting movements to ban abortions (also the biblical basis of that is questionable) or force shops to close on Sundays.
I believe in the sharing of faith, but I’m not acting like an arch user or a vegan who has to work it into conversation every chance they get (yes, that’s an exaggeration.) My friends already know I’m a Christian, and most people in Western society already know the basic tenets of the religion, so sharing that repeatedly isn’t going to do much. And I can’t force someone to be saved or bring them to salvation, God has to call them. So all I can and should do is help to show it’s real by the way I live my life, demonstrating love for all mankind, and hope they get the idea. If that much is problematic, I think we’ve got issues.
The reason I take issue with demonizing evangelicals is that it comes off as “Christianity as a whole might be fine, just don’t be an evangelical because they’re the bad ones,” and then you look it up and it becomes “you can be a Christian, just don’t tell anyone and don’t believe the Bible.” I figured that isn’t what was meant exactly, which is why I’m asking for a different label to be used, because that’s how it comes off.
Your argument is the same one cops use to justify “bad apples”: it’s not all of us, it’s only some of us.
Before any religion starts preaching to their neighbors or “sharing the faith,” y’all need to get your own folks in order. You may not demonize LGBTQ+ people, or want to ban abortion, or force others to live under the same tenets as you, but those who wear your cross and share your God do.
So all I can and should do is help to show it’s real by the way I live my life, demonstrating love for all mankind, and hope they get the idea. If that much is problematic, I think we’ve got issues.
I would argue we definitely have issues. You will not change my mind, but religion has done significantly more harm across history, particularly Christianity, than any amount of Christian do-gooding will ever be able to undo. Millions across history have suffered, been enslaved, had their rights taken away, been tortured, and killed at the hands of “Christians,” and that includes the modern day. Christian groups are the ones helping to spread HIV/AIDS across Africa because god forbid anyone use a condom, Christians are the ones pushing for abortion bans, and Christians are the ones trying to pull the US into an authoritarian theocracy.
So if you don’t want to be associated with the ills of Christianity, you may want to reconsider, in my opinion, what benefit God provides to mankind. Because from where I’m sitting, it’s literally zero. The world would be a much better place without religion, and you shouldn’t need the promise of an eternal paradise and eternal salvation to, as you put it, “demonstrating love for all mankind.” If you can’t live that way without “God” telling you, then you’re exactly the problem with Christianity.
Youre doing it right now. No one wants to hear about your faith, or how “You might be one of the good ones” that exact thing has been said to persecute too many actual good people who are literally just trying to go about their day.
Its typically not seen as a good thing to go around proclaiming how terrible your critical thinking skills are.
“Christianity as a whole might be fine, just don’t be an evangelical because they’re the bad ones,” that’s about what I got from it. In my church at least, we’re starting to focus more and more on doing actual outreach that doesn’t include evangelizing. Those people who believe that we need to tell all our neighbors regardless of whether they want to hear are becoming more and more of the minority.
I get that a lot of evangelicals are bad but the level of hate Lemmy has for them is… Excessive
it’s just that there’s an emphasis on the authority of the Bible, sharing of faith, and personal salvation
Two of those three things are at best annoying and at worst deadly to the evangelical Christian’s victims
sharing their faith respectfully
How can you respectfully tell someone that they will burn for all eternity for not following the same book you do?
If you call yourself a Christian while evangelical Christians are making all these problems, you are helping them make problems. They love more than anything being able to claim that they’re in the right because they’re in the majority. If you want to follow the teachings of a middle eastern Jew from the Roman era, that’s fine, but don’t call yourself a Christian because that label has been ruined.
Not only that, it’s unlikely most of the beliefs, teachings and rituals done since the establishment of the Eastern Orthodoxy (~110AD?) are part of Jesus* original teachings. Add the differences that happened after the catholic schism, then protestant reform, plus other shenanigans and you get to today.
* Him or any other figures that were responsible for the “creation” of the new religion
You should probably look up what evangelical actually means then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelism
It requires proselytizing.
If that’s the case, why is it that every single evangelical pastor, on TV, is absolutely guilty of using The Lord’s Name in Vain?
That refers to attempting to cast magic using The Lord’s Name, not cuss words.
But they don’t like being called fundamentalist zealots and they get less angry if you use terms that make them appear less crazy.
If someone’s out trying to bring about a second Holocaust, you can call them a Nazi. It wouldn’t be right to call them “someone with an old German mindset.”
The pages from the Bible are worse than toilet paper
