The mods of all the major communities there remove comments criticism Hexbear and usually follow it up with a ban. It’s absolutely clear what is happening and it shouldn’t be allowed to continue.
Welcome to federation, where basically every instance is a proxy to all others.
Btw you are also free to block any instance yourself.
Btw you are also free to block any instance yourself.
Not how the instance blocking feature works. it’s a common misconception because people don’t read the docs and just assume it does what they think it does. From the News Section on Join-Lemmy:
Users can now block instances. Similar to community blocks, it means that any posts from communities which are hosted on that instance are hidden. However the block doesn’t affect users from the blocked instance, their posts and comments can still be seen normally in other communities.
It’s not an alternative or replacement to defederation, not even close. I’m really surprised this misconception still persists even after widespread adoption of 0.19.x across the Lemmy network.
So you don’t care about the instance you want to ban all the users from there. That’s quite open minded and tolerant!
Honestly, I’m so weary of being open minded and tolerant. I just want to look at linux memes in peace.
Paradox of tolerance, if you tolerate the intolerant then tolerance quickly goes extinct.
Can we stop this please?
It was never that revolutionary in the first place - “if you allow assholes to be assholes everything will go to shit” - I’m shocked.
… but now, after seeing it as a reply to every second comment on lemmy, it’s just spam and doesn’t inform discussion in any way.
You can block instances for yourself instead of blocking them for everyone.
Good lord. It’s as though you haven’t bothered to read any other comments in this thread.
Blocking instances yourself doesn’t solve anything. At all.
Of course they didn’t, they’re just reactively replying to comments that trigger them hoping that the people they reply to also get triggered. They are a troll.
I’m all for defederating Hexbear, but lemmy.ml is absolutely huge compared to Hexbear. To motivate the community to do that you’d need quite a bit of proof. Or at least something rather compelling. Do you have any proof of what you’re referring to?
Asking for proof of what is an open secret on lemmy seems disingenuous.
I think that instances like hexbear, lemmygrad, and lemmy.ml are very bad advocates for Lemmy and will most likely end up damaging it more than anything else, keeping the “normies” out.
They argue in Bad faith, say the most radical stuff they can think of, and purge anything bad said about totalitarian regimes they idolize. China, Russia, Iran, all considered victims of the evil west…
- Uyghur camps > not happening
- Tiannamen square > Just some peaceful protests
- invasion of Ukraine > NATO forced Russia to do it
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There is an admin on lemmy.ml that seems to be banning anyone who says anything negative about China. If I’m thinking of the right person, they are also a large contributor to the Lemmy codebase. That person is why I stopped donating to the Lemmy devs.
This kind of stuff is making me consider stopping my donations to the Lemmy project, and instead donating to the Sublinks drop-in replacement developed by the programming.dev instance admins
Hey, I’m the founder of Sublinks. It’s a huge collaboration of several major Lemmy instances like lemmy world, beehaw, discuss.online, programming.dev, and quite a few others that wish not to be named until the release.
Some admins are directly working on the project while others are providing other types of support. @Ategon@programming.dev is certainly a major contributor and has helped develop the new front end in many major ways. You can follow some progress updates here: !sublinks@discuss.online
We have several different teams of developers:
- API / Java
- Front-end / JS/CSS/HTML
- Federation / GoLang
- Libraries / JS
- Requirements gathering and organization
- Design & Graphics - UI/UX
- Lemmy to Sublinks migration tools
There is an active community on Matrix where all of us chat: https://matrix.to/#/#sublinks:discuss.online if anyone is interested in joining. We also have weekly touch bases to discuss progress and next steps. There are tons of people contributing.
We are currently taking donations only through Github: https://github.com/sponsors/sublinks if you’re truly interested. We’re all working on this part-time in our free time and making fantastic progress.
Let me know if you have any questions!
I would like to see proof of how a community doing its own thing of sharing their radical views on their instance is damaging.
I haven’t seen any rampant behavior of lemmy.ml users going to other instances and dogpiling certain posts or comment section. That may be defederation worthy.
The denial of having seen it yourself, is something I don’t believe. Therefore I don’t believe you made your reply in good faith.
Not all of lemmy.ml is a cesspool filled with poisonous cretins, but they (tankies) control the instance at conversational, moderation and administration level. So it will not change, only get worse.
Just like we see with the MAGAts… Once you start drinking your own coolaid… the sky is the limit.
The denial of having seen it yourself, is something I don’t believe.
If it’s so rampant that you find it unbelievable I haven’t seen it, then it must be very easy to prove. Can you please provide a proof?
but they (tankies) control the instance…
It’s their instance. That’s not proper grounds for defederation in my opinion, when the damage is contained within their instance.
As I stated in my preface, no thank you.
And if it is contained in their instance… it does not matter that the borders are guarded by deFederation.
No worries. I never expected you to have the proof anyways, but I wanted readers to be aware that you don’t.
That’s fair. I think most people can make up their own minds looking at the thread, posts contents and then their own experience in the .ml scape compared to the rest of Lemmy.
It’s totally reasonable to ask me to cite my reasoning.
Check my history, I called them out for the NATO one today and they threw all sorts of random shit at me that was off the central point, just looking for a mistake in my wording.
Yep. They were claiming that Putin invaded Ukraine to stop fascists. And that they were liberators. I was like, why would one fascist care what other fascists do? In the US, our fascist, wealthy Republicans largely supported Hitler till pearl harbor. But I did agree with them that the Soviet Union absolutely liberated many countries against their will post WWII. And that those countries still hold it against them to this day.
The gulags were mentioned and they were like, but but but America jails more! To which I told them that was bad. But the West doesn’t kill millions of prisoners the way they did. And all for political dissent, reminding them of just two weeks ago when Putin had Navalny killed for political dissent.
The absurd thing is, I’m one hundred percent down for Marxism. And largely agree politically with his theory plus some modernization. So technically we would agree on a lot of things there. It’s just the Engles and Lenin bullshit I disagree with, and has shown to have failed. Or caused their downfall historically. But they are primarily leninists, dedicated ideologically to authoritarians and strongmen above all reality.
IF lemmy.ml is admin’d by the Lemmy devs, themselves,
AND their ideology/prejudice is being obstructed by the Lemmy-verse,
THEN wouldn’t it be rational for them to engineer-in to Lemmy, itself, protections for their ideology?
Breaking the Fediverse’s ability to “manage” them?
or breaking the Fediverse’s ability to have any alternative-ideology be its core??
I’m thinking they could either adulterate privacy, deliberately, or they could force blocking to be porous, or something…
IOW, I’m thinking that it is strategically-incompetent to allow tankies to own our core tech, exactly as it is strategically-incompetent to allow right-wing highjackers-of-our-countries to do so.
?
They could, but it’s open source software. People can just fork it and not follow along such self destructive paths.
I blacked out irrelevant information.
This is less about the instance as a whole. The !worldnews@lemmy.ml mods are notoriously terrible. It’s best to just avoid the community altogether.
While I agree that hexbear generally sucks, they and I do at least have an enemy in common. That ban is not so undeserved as I was led to expect.
Is your common enemy the People? Because Hexbear promotes authoritarianism and genocide denial.
Tankies say all kinds of stupid things, but even if we grant the thus-far unproven assumption that the person being addressed there is among them, when they’re telling nazis to fuck off that is not an appropriate moment to try and start a pointless fight by asserting that they’re wrong about every single thing.
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Just as long as you’re not Ukrainian, Tibetan, or Uyghur or else they’ll defend ending your life as a human being.
Don’t forget they openly root for Hamas, which will do way worse than just kill people for being queer.
So what? It’s no different from lemmy.world where the vast majority of users pay Palestinians lip service but get buttmad at the suggestion of holding the US government accountable for funding Israel, only because the man in office is their guy. You all are more than happy to sacrifice a few tens of thousands of Palestinians if it means you don’t have to criticize dear leader.
Most of you are gigantic hypocrites on the topic of genocide.
Idk there’s the dunk tank but apart from that CPT…
EDIT: yeah I was wrong I see what y’all mean…
Lemmy.ml is not only a massive instance, it is also the original and core lemmy instance. Widespread defederation would be like a nuclear bomb to the lemmy platform.
Some people have developed alternatives in the threadiverse like kbin or piefed. If lemmy.ml is truly too far aflight for users to tolerate, it seems likely that alternative platforms will fill in the gaps. For now, lemmy is still a thriving and growing platform.
If instances can participate in asymmetric information warfare without reprisal, the Lemmy experiment has failed.
It’s not thriving. The devs are prickly arseholes, which is anathema to building a cooperative, volunteer-driven dev community and the tone of many mainstream communities is obnoxiously set by tankies amd their alts.
Probably one of if not the biggest reasons people had poor experiences on Lemmy before was because they signed up on Lemmy.ml
So what if it is the original? Bad moderation, combined with idolation of authoritarianism is some poisonous stuff.
The question is if admins are willing to have an open conversation about the moderation and content.
But deFederation is a fine solution. Then the admins on .ml have their way and they can have their little hermit kingdom without any dissenting views. And we can go on with out lives without their bile in our feeds and threads.
It’s crazy that people here want the most authoritarian measure to fight authoritarianism somehow…
What people, what authoritarian measure?
You mean it is strange that sane, normal people want to stop authoritarian/totalitarian fanboys from spreading hatefull falsehoods, stifling dissent using bans and heavy moderation? By using the tools at their disposal and telling these smegheads to f- off? Plenty of speech is deemed unacceptable: holocaust denial, swatstikas, from the river to the sea, white power, just to name a few.
Well if that is your idea of what should be acceptable, we disagree. The Overton window should remain in the middle and not be allowed to stretch to include these extremist views. Not from the “right” or “left”.
This thread is about de federating from lemmy.lm. Because some fascists here are on a witch hunt against some people from hexbear.
It is literally telling everyone that either they defederate from hexbear or they defederate from lemmy.world.
Typical trump diplomacy btw.
I think the issue is way bigger than hexbear, or maybe they are mask off on hexbear. But hexbear, lemmygrad and lemmy.ml can be their own little island archipelago for all I care. If this helps people not have to deal with these idiots.
Keep calling everyone fascists and trump-ets, it does not help your argument.
You see, now you’re saving the people from the evil leftist propaganda.
Ml will be long term poison to the group. There’s nothing new to say over there, all their own threads are circular.
Yeah because lemmy world never circlejerks about anything. Meanwhile you’re literally in one now.
The least interesting thing in the world is people complaining about Hexbear, maybe that is why your comments were removed? Why can’t you just block their comms and ignore them? Works for me, I have an account on .ml I use that federates with Hexbear and when I see things that I think are uninteresting, stupid or immature I just move on like a normal person.
This comment is brought to you by the Hexbear outreach program.
Do you think comments like these are swaying public opinion in your favor?
At some time we have to deal with this.
Keep in mind that we like Lemmy for being a federated platform.
I don’t think there is enough awareness at this point. And the way we do it here, it has to come from the community. The people and mods have to become aware and make a decision to move their participation and the communities to another instance. I don’t see a way around that. This will take some time, patience and effort.
I’ve started to do my part and unsubscribed from !Fediverse@lemmy.ml I’m now going through my list of subscriptions and find alternatives to other communities, so I don’t contribute to the lemmy.ml communities being the larges ones any more.
[Edit: Wow. I’ve replaced 32 communities, some with substantially better alternatives, and I’ve found a few nice additional ones in the process. I still need recommendations for alternatives to: “Peertube”, “Libre Culture”, “Crawling the IndieWeb”, “datahoarder”, “Linux Phones”, “postmarketOS”, “osu!”. I’m glad I did this. I think this is the way to make a change as a simple user. And now I’m not part of the problem anymore. It took me the better part of an hour, though.]
If they weren’t such weasels and actually agrued back rather than just ban people like the spineless dimwit twats they are, I’d say the argument that they are easily filtered holds. But given they are just looking to propagate their shilling for Russia, trump (and they definitely do this) etc… fuck em!
Please find a single example of Hexbear supporting Trump. Attacking Biden does not count
If you can’t see how hexbear is mirroring trump rhetoric almost word for word then I don’t know what to tell you.
They’re the new The_Donald, only they’re not even self aware enough to know they’re the bad guys.
I’m not sure which is worse.
Oh shit they’re the new t_d? that’s wild, can you link an example? just one?
Hmmm… brand new account- no content except to be contrarian to the topic…. I’ll entertain your bad-faith question….
Go to those communities. There’s my example. All of it.
Oh damn, what tipped you off? Was it the “hexbear” in my name? Link a single example. Go ahead, make me look like a fucking moron
Go ahead, make me look like a fucking moron
You don’t need my help.
Yes, leftists famously LOVE Donald Trump 🤣
This is the most Reddit radlib shit I’ve seen over here yet. Grow up my dude
Hexbears arent lefties. They are hiding behind acting like they are lefties while at the same time sucking up to the most fascist regimes on earth.
Lemmy.ml are tankies first and foremost. They’ll defend anything that Russia/China thinks is good.
Calling them leftists is an insult to the rest of us who aren’t authie chuds.
No ‘leftists’ don’t, but you’re all pepe loving little bootlicking fascists.
Seems like they werent such big fans of your post. It has been removed from their instance and your account was banned. Very interesting 🤔
You’ve got things backwards: OP was banned first and then posted this drama in reaction. The post isn’t visible on lemmy.ml because OP is banned.
I was banned from ml for merely suggesting that responding to someone with memes is childish and immature. So OP being banned from ml isn’t really the crime you might think it is.
Backwards or not- it doesn’t make what they said wrong.
I don’t know what account of yours that was, so I guess I’ll have to take your word for it, because it wasn’t the account you’re currently using.
No, it wasn’t. And I’ve much better things to do than to make up stories about a backwoods community on a mid-tier social network.
the evidence suggests otherwise
AFAICT this person is just making up random garbage up all over this thread. They have the means necessary to prove all of their claims if they’re true, but so far have provided nothing.
and to what end? what is the purpose here? spreading spurious and undisprovable accusations is pointless when people can undermine them just by pointing out the nature of the accusation.
So, you want people to miss out on cat pictures because your feelings were hurt?
There are much better places to find cat pictures.
Ah! That makes sense. I was on world news of Lemmy.ml and the comments where full of nutters and/or troll farms. It was like gote/gout (or whatever it was called), another Reddit alternative I’ve tried that seamed to fill Nazis kicked off Reddit. I unsubscribed and blocked.
Edit: Voat! That was it.
I think you’re thinking of Voat.
Yes! That’s the one!
No. Defederating at the drop of a hat is stupid. You don’t like it? Then you, YOU, block the instance.
I don’t like defederation, but these clowns are asking for it for a very long time.
What’s funny is that Lemmy.ml users aren’t seeing this neolib nonsense because OP is temp. banned.
“Anything that isn’t praising shitheaps like Stalin, Mao, or the Kims is neolib nonsense”
Fuck .ml and hexbear. They can all go choke on razor wire.
Moreover, it seems pretty clear to me that .ml intends to keep their finger on the scale as much as possible. Just saying “oh federation solves all the problems just block them” doesn’t really fix the issue when there are a bunch of ways they can potentially run malicious versions of the code base to mess with how federation functions and hold onto their influence. For example, they are already refusing to federate their mod logs in some cases, and they’ve shown themselves to be completely shameless and hypocritical when it comes to banning any and all dissent. They simply cannot be trusted.
I personally believe that the broader fediverse should seriously consider taking serious steps to cut out .ml before they do something drastic to fuck it all up
doesn’t really fix the issue when there are a bunch of ways they can potentially run malicious versions of the code base to mess with how federation functions and hold onto their influence.
This is hysteria of Chinese spy balloon proportions 😂
They also manipulated the modlog on their site to not differentiate between removed by mod and removed by admin. So even When something is removed by Dessalines or Nutomic it’ll still show as moderator and not admin in the mod log.
That your lies get any upvotes is quite sad, i thought people on lemmy were tech savvy. I’m not and even i can see that you’re making this stuff up.
Maybe go back to .ml where people don’t need proof to support their arguments and just make wild sweeping accusations, but it’s been proven already that OP is correct.
You’re just wrong.
Where is the proof please? As far as i can see, the lemmy.world modlog is the outlier, not the lemmy.ml one.
Plenty of people have provided proof. You’re free to check all the threads here and find them yourself. At this point I’d just be repeating the same sources.
Do your own work. Don’t expect everyone to do it for you.
Sorry but i cannot find anything. If the proof for Draconic’s claims is so obvious and plenty, please be so kind and link at least one bit to me. The only thing i could find that seems like some kind of “proof” is the screenshot @Draconic_NEO posted. How they got to take it i have no idea, not saying they drew it in paint, but here is what it looks like on my side (same mod actions):
Again, it’s not my job to provide evidence already provided.
This whole post has been like a gish gallop DDoS attack.
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Would you apply that logic to a neonazi white supremacist community on Lemmy.world?
Can you give us the name? I think just spreading FUD isn’t really helping and I also can’t do anything about it without more information.
It’s a hypothetical situation.
I would indeed say:
- yep, definitely don’t join it
- neonazi white supremacist is not the same as Communist
Tankie is not the same as communist either. Tankies are genocide denial, authoritarian supporters, who are no better than Nazis.
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Okay, so you’re fine with sharing spaces with neonazi white supremacists.
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No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.
They would still be active on the site and harming the community at large, you personally would just be blind to it.
No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.
Isn’t defederation the same thing? Users won’t disappear (and they can also create accounts elsewhere…).
Blocked users or communities can still interact on the wider site and with you, you just won’t see them.
Defederated instances are completely barred from doing so.
It’s the difference between plugging your ears when someone else speaks vs locking them out of your house and not letting them get close.
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Okay so how do we report lemmy.ml?
Rules in question stated as a reason for removing the comments and temporary ban:
- No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
- Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.
People can make their own conclusions.
Since when is calling out tankies racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia?
bigotry
ˈbɪɡətri
noun
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.If the person in question went after them simply because they are part of the group called ‘tankies’, the first rule was broken.
If the person in question was the first to throw out insults, the second rule was broken.If however the opposing group initiated the conflict, broke the same rules and was not punished, then the complaint here is fair and should be pursued in order to prevent an escalation of abuse.
…
The nasty thing about bigotry is that by definition, it doesn’t matter which group is being discriminated against. It accepts all discrimination under its label.
We generally don’t consider something to be bigotry if it is directed at an ideology or behavior that people can control. Ability or disability, gender, religious/ethnic background, race, age, nationality, etc. are all factors that are beyond an individual’s control.
Hate to Godwin this thread, but does that mean you can’t attack Nazis as a group on lemmy.ml?
Of course not. They apply their rules subjectively.
For instance I got rule 1’d for saying “Fuck China” but I bet you, you wouldn’t get banned for saying “Fuck America” or “Fuck Israel” (fuck ‘em all imo).
Really the best choice here. Hooray for open modlogs!
